An Owner's Experience-Evolution of the Tercel-Series 1 and 2

[swanterky]

For a dozen years, I drove, kept parts for, and rebuilt and maintained, a half a dozen English Hillmans, made by the Rootes Group of England, makers of the more well-known Sunbeam and Sunbeam Tiger (available with a 260 cu. in. Ford V8).
My Hillman cars were side cam OHV 4's, very low rpm as compared with later OHC 4 cyls. I owned a 2 dr. mini-station wagon (Husky) with a fold-down rear seat and a rear door that opened like a regular house door; a 1955 Californian: a 2 dr hardtop with a 1394 OHV 4cyl with 4 on the tree (column shift) that I drove from Vancouver to the Baja and back; and a 4 door sedan black Minx in which I upgraded the non 1st gr synchro 4 speed gearbox to a later model Sunbeam 4 spd that had synchros in all 4 spds! This car lasted some 10 years, and because of it low starting mileage (30K), and new rings and bearings at the start, lasted well.
I had a short ordeal with an 81 Chevette, that fell apart as I drove it, and then a '80 Acadian, that had a much better carb but died in a low speed accident, that turned out to be a blessing, as it introduced me to my 1st Tercel.
In driving this little 4 spd two dr sedan home from the dealers I thought: "This isn't a car--It's a little truck!" It held the road wonderfully, and gave me the feeling that there was something solid between me and the road, and the other vehicles on it. I actually used to move pianos on a small trailer behind it, the piano laid on it's back on the trailer. This little car gave me no trouble except for the crappy cv's of Gen 1--having only three bearings per cv joint. I kept this little ride for a couple of years, and it was still running well when I was seduced by an 81 SR5 HB with 70K Km's--a wonderful little car with great speed and economy because of the 5 Spd, but with the same poor cv's of the last car, and a rear trailing arm rust-out problem that was, at least, fully covered under warranty. I must have driven this car some 5-6 years, when it was hit (and run) on a slippery street in AB Canada, by a large Ford ½ Ton, to leave me car-less, and a long way from home. Again, what seemed to be a very negative situation turned out well, because it led me to my 1st Series 2 Tercel!
The car I found was an '85 4WD auto, and after a test drive I knew I was getting somewhere in the car world. It had some 70,000 Km's, ran very well, had great visibility after the '81 SR5 with it's smaller windshield and side windows, and had only one major glitch that I discovered at this time. After the test drive, I put it in park, but the car did not lock--at this time the owner explained that his elderly uncle, who had died and left him the car a year before, had driven the car in 4WD mode on dry pavement, and chipped a tooth on the front crown gear. He said that the chipped tooth was so noisy that he had a mechanic take out the crown gear, and had driven the car in 4WD mode ever since (which made it, essentially, a RWD car)! But I made a deal anyway, as there were no other Tercels to be had, and basically, I loved the car. Upon driving the car down the highway to the place where I was staying, however, I had a great shock. The motor was just screaming at anything over 105K (compared to the SR5) and everything, including the trucks, were whipping by me as if I were standing still! But I got home, and back to Vancouver without incident, and more great things were to follow!
After a compulsory inspection (for out-of-province vehicle) I continued with this car, but in the back of my mind I knew that I wanted a 5 Spd. And one day, while picking up my elderly mother from a senior center, a strange thing happened.
I had entered the center, and when I led my mother out to the car, two ladies were standing by the wagon as if they were waiting to get in!? The coordinator for the center realized what was happening, and told the ladies that the car was mine, after which one of the ladies said: "My daughter has an identical car to this one, and she is supposed to be picking us up." I said "Really?", and of course, waited around to see this car. Soon, the daughter drove up in a gold, almost identical FWD Auto, with 80,000 Km on the odometer, and scarcely a spec of rust. I asked her about the car, and found out that she was the original owner, and that she had just traded it on a Matrix, and was driving it until her new car was delivered and prepped. I had to ask: "How much did they give you on the Tercel as a trade in?" "$1000", she replied. I said: "I will give you $1500 cash if you want to ask them to renegotiate the deal. You will probably pay no more for the Matrix, and will be $500 richer!" "I don't think so, the deal is already done", she replied, and refused any further attempts to convince, communicate, or any attempt to sway her to redo the deal (easy in this computer age). I though I was done with this woman until I got a call a month later from her; and she was trying to sell a couple of worn tires on wheels, and when I told her that I wasn't interested, she said: "I thought I would give you 1st chance before I start calling the tire shops". Imagine that---couldn't be bothered to pick up a cool $500 for, maybe, a half-hour’s effort, but was trying to sell tires and wheels for a now 16 year old car by phoning tire shops? Duh? So I did something I had rarely done. I paid her dealer $2400.00 + Taxes (nearly $2800) for the '85 Auto! Almost 3 Grand! Could I have lost my mind?
Nope, never did. Nohow!
The saga continued: Found an '84 FWD 5 Spd that had been in a wreck, converted the FWD Auto to 5 Spd (from the wreck). Took the FWD Auto tranny and installed it in the low-geared 4WD Auto, and converted it to FWD by removing the driveshaft. Sold it for $1900 to friends, who got 5 years out of it before it was wrecked in an accident. One time they were getting an oil change at one of those "fast" places, and the guy yelled up---"Hey!--you're missing your driveshaft!" This car served them well--it was no powerhouse on the highway, but it cruised OK--despite the drag of the rear diff. They used it mainly around town, anyway. I could never really figure a way to take the diff gears out and maintain integrity of the rear axles, and the 4WD body did not permit installation of the FWD suspension.
My move to the uplands 7 years ago (and finally, a piece of property that I own) was coupled with starting a collection of 5 x 4WD's--2 for parts, a 4WD auto converted to 6 Spd (using a tranny I got for free through CL in Vancouver!), and 87 that I did minimal work to and resold, and another '87 that required a new clutch---I fixed it up, drove it 1 winter, sold it to a friend's son, got it back 3 years later with a blown motor and took it as trade in for a '85 FWD (with Auto to 5 Spd conversion) that I had driven for 3 years. So, I swapped out the motor from another 4WD ('84) into this '87, and it has become my winter car.
Two weeks ago I found an '85 FWD Auto, with 200K on it, underneath a townhouse complex in Vancouver. It has no rust, but needs a new fr. bumper and fender work where it gave some truck a friendly nudge, and also needs an Auto to 5 Spd conversion.
Alas—with my feeling about the environment, and the rising cost of fuel, I am considering keeping 1 4WD for a backup winter car, and selling the other, including the duplicate 4WD parts that I possess. I do no “4-wheeling” for recreation, and the 8-9 miles more (per Imperial gallon) of the longer-legged FWD is hard to resist. If I travel 120 miles, I burn one more gallon of fuel with a ~30 Mpg 4WD versus a 40+ Mpg FWD (summer mileages). So a 4WD beater that I can put on the road in a real snowy winter, and a FWD for good mileage in the summer, when I do more traveling, is a great combo.
The FWD’s, with their “Softer” rear suspension, and lower acceleration because of their 3:73 gearing, are certainly no great sprinters, but they are great cruisers, even if it takes a little more shifting in the mountains.
When I rebuilt and converted my ’86 4WD auto, I transferred in both diffs and the tranny from the Aug ’84 4WD 6 Spd (evidently, many cars after 10/84 were already being converted to 4:10 diffs). I was very disappointed that, even with these 3:73 diffs in the ‘86, I did not get the same top end “long-leggedness” as in the FWD. This has led me to believe that the 6 Spd has different gear ratios throughout. In driving my current winter 4WD, I notice that the shift pattern is considerably different, and although I have looked all over the internet for the 4WD tranny gear ratios, I have been unable to find them for the 6 Spd Trannies. I have found them for the 5 Spd FWD trannies, however.
I would still like to know the ratios of the 4WD tranny.

My impressions, all-in-all, of the evolution of our "Babies".

Series 1 (80-82 in Canada) was a good little car, despite the drawbacks of the poorly designed CV joints, and the poorly designed "pressed-metal" suspension parts--the front and the rear trailing arms that rusted out and had to be replaced (under full warranty, though). The quick to rust and leak mufflers were a drag, as well.

Series 2 (83-86 Sedans, 83-88 Wagons in Canada) was vastly improved, especially suspension--new "I-Beam" trailing arms in front, and of course the tougher suspension on the 4WD makes for a stiffer, and higher ride, but a 'buff' feeling of being in a little truck! Other little things took place as well—the ’83-84 wagons left little room to remove the Distributor-this was improved in the later years. But the 83-84 had a decent, copper construct dome light switch that never failed like the “Steel Ball—riveted contacts” model of later years.

As with Series 1, I get a feeling that the later S-2 models are ‘thinner’, and more cheaply constructed. I noticed in Series 1, in the 1982’s, a distinct feeling that the sheet metal in the doors and bodies was thinner, and lighter. In series 2, this feeling begins in ‘85 and onward. It was almost as if Toyota knew that they had achieved the market share that they were looking for, and were gradually removing the quality. Problems with the window tracks, the dome light, door handles, the thinner soundproofing and carpets, and the reduction in heater controls for Bi-level heating were just a few of the little ‘cutbacks’ in the S-2 quality. I also remain very disappointed in the quality of the headlights in the ’87 and ’88 models. Even with expensive (supposedly 50%) Brighter bulbs, I am getting much dimmer light than I do from the older sealed beams. Despite this, the early Series 2 were the best Tercels ever made, with the best engine durability, cockpit vision, and durability of the body, trim, and interior. Although I can no longer find it, I remember a link on the Web about an Oregon schoolteacher who achieved 732,000 Miles (yes MILES) on his ’86 FWD auto 3A engine, and the car was still in use!

It was so sad to see the 3-E, with it’s crappy carburation system, succeed the reliable 3-A. And callbacks of the early 90’s models for bad rings seemed to say that Toyota really didn’t care that much any more about the Tercel, albeit that they maintained a “best-buy’ status in consumer magazines and reports.

In explaining to a friend’s wife, who responded with “Don’t you have enough cars already?” when I told her about buying the ’86 FWD that had been parked for 10 years, I told her that if it wasn’t for me, this long advertised car may have just gone to the salvage yard. She seemed skeptical, but I decided not to tell her that I have spent less (purchase price) on ALL the Tercels that I have owned, than the 9 G’s she spent on her last vehicle: a 13 year old Subaru Forester with it’s somewhat dubious Boxter engine and very poor gas mileage.

Year’s ago I offered her an ’85 FWD Tercel Wagon at a very affordable price, but she turned it down. She said “It’s not good (Classy) enough for me.

“Classy” (I thought) “Some people just have all their class in the wrong places!”

[ARCHINSTL]

Great stories - Thanks!
Your comments about the later dome light switching arrangement is interesting; I've been having a similar - and occasional - problem with my '86. Now, I only had my then-new '83 for three years back then, but never noticed a problem with it. Thanks for the answer!

You have added a lot to the Club!
Tom M.

[swanterky]

Thanks for your feedback--I had a great time reminiscing my "car past"--and my enjoyment of owning and repairing Tercels. Interesting, tho---my '85 FWD with it's 160K Kms is also called Goldie--so yours and mine must be sisters from similar mother---or something like that. BTW--there is a ORIGINAL windshield in Montezuma IA for $100 out of the car. I was thinking about arranging shipping for it---there is no comparison between the original windshields and the cheap aftermarket glass that gets put in through glass shops. I hit an OWL last Thurs p.m. traveling at 110 Km (65MPH) and my original windshield, although it cracked all over inside and out, did not let go. I have never heard such a BANG without hitting another vehicle--the bird must have weighed over 10 lbs. I truly believe, through my experience with aftermarket windshields, that the bird would have come right through if that's what had been installed in the car. You are a lot closer than me to Montezuma--it would be well worth the drive (about 1/2 hour from Des Moines) Happy New Year! http://www.ebay.com/itm/83-86-TOYOTA-4W ... 58837213a7

Ken

[Petros]

great story there Ken, and welcome to the list.

the second gen Tercel was their entry level car, and had a lot low budget accommodations. ONe thing good for us however is that many of the parts are interchangeable with other models of cars, so they are plentiful and more durable that might have otherwise been used on an econo-box car.

the 4wd wagon is the best of this model line, and the SR5 version had a lot of the complaints resolved, better seats, tach and generally nicer details. but they still did a lot of really stupid things on it, the brakes are way too light, you will warp the front rotors on a long down hill run. I wrote up a thread on installing larger brakes, which is mostly a bolt up improvement using nothing but Toyota parts. the other thing I do not care for is the underpowered engine, with an 8-valve head and the carburetor it was obsolete even as it was being produced. Most other car companies went to EFI and 16-valve engines by than, and many of Toyota's other models had this too. Than rather than up grading the Tercel4wd car for 1988, they discontinued it, replaced it with a corrolla all-trac, which did not sell well, so that was later replaced with the RAV4. and it has been getting larger and heavier with each redesign. They should have stuck with the small lightweight 4x4, but with more modern styling, and mechanical details. There has not been as good a small 4x4 built since than, and why they are still popular in the Seattle/Portland area. There is no such thing as a lightweight 4x4 anylonger, you need to buy a much larger, more complex and much heavier car to get a "small" 4x4.

With regards to most females opinion of our Tercel, I think the problem with the Tercel is the very dated utilitarian look to the car. My wife and two young adult daughters really hate to be seen in mine. Which is just as well since they never ask to borrow it. Funny though how when we get lots of snow and ice on the roads, and I switch to studded snow tires, suddenly their feelings for the my Tercel4wd change quite a bit. There are a lot of funny threads about our Tercel as a "chick magnet" (NOT!). Most women buy cars based on looks or status (lots of men too, but more so with women), while many guys will look at it purely as a utilitarian purchase. In that category, the Tercel4wd wins every time. But when it comes to looks or status, it would be pretty low on the scale.

[swanterky]

Good Observations, Petros;
My brother told me he thought they were just ugly--but his GM pickups are all from the late 90's--all the earlier ones he owned fell apart. And none of them ever went over 500,000K, or, as in the case of that Oregon Teacher, over 732,000 miles! Toyota sure fixed that by going to the 3-E.
Knock on Wood (or why is my head hurting) I have never sat at the side of the road yet, when driving a Tercel, for any reason besides a tire problem. Once, almost because of a sticking caliper "Glide" (Why do those darn things stick the way they do?)
A mechanic told me once that one of the reasons for rotor warping is holding the brake pedal down after a hard braking. This is especially true with Automatics. So I have tried to use the parking brake, if I am stopped at a light, say, on an incline, after getting the brakes hot on a hill. Another thing I was told was that letting the pads wear right down transmits more heat from the heavy metal pad "backing plate" to the rotor. However, If you think Tercels have bad brakes--the Chevette and Acadian that I endured had such small pads and rotors that one could not lock the brakes at all. I think it was the forerunner to ABS! I couldn't believe how my 1st Tercel would stop--and the GEN 2 are better!
The last great 'useful' thing I can remember at this time, when I owned my '81 SR5 with the crappy cv's, was never to accelerate in a turn, as this is when cv's are more vulnerable to wear. I followed his advice, and my cv's lasted much longer. I have tried to remember to do that with my newer models.
Well, gonna put those lights back in before dark--the tale of repair, etc., is at https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8727 (as you probably already know!) Later.....

[Petros]

the heat comes from the interface between the pad and the rotor, thin pads would dissipate the heat faster into the caliper. what your wrote sounds like bunk to me, I was coming down from a ski area with one other person and ski gear. I would use the engine so slow as much as possible since I knew the brakes were marginal. i would stab on the brakes until slowed and than back off all the way and allow the car to coast. but the weight of the car, and the long downhill run was too much, during one quick breaking of hard mashing of the brakes, I felt the peddle start throbbing under my foot. I knew what it meant, that with me even being careful and without a very heavy loaded car, I warped the rotors again!

The Tercel4wd uses the same size front brakes and rotors of the 2 door hatch back fwd tercel, strangely they put larger rear brakes on the T4wd, but not front. it has 11 mm thick solid rotors (not vented). Consider that the much lighter fwd two door has the same brakes as the 5 door, 5 seat 4x4 wagon, does that make sense? the same weight corolla, the lighter MR2 both use 25 mm thick vented front rotors, with similar calipers (same size piston). So I found by swapping parts around which vented rotors and wider calipers could fit. I also hunted for a master cylinder with a smaller dia bore to improve the braking ratio, and found it in the MR2 master. Using both the MR2 master and the brake booster it just bolts right into the Tercel brake pedal assembly. More stopping power and vented front rotors, makes a big difference. see this thread on how to up-grade your Tercel brakes, easy and cheap with wrecking yard parts: https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4998

So if you need to replace any of the front brake parts or the master cylinder, you should also consider doing this up-grade, not more work and only costs a bit more, and very well worth it. I must have warped a rotor every two years or so, even with careful braking. I have not warped one since the up-grade.

[swanterky]

The first two links found by Google "What makes rotors warp?":
http://www.examiner.com/article/there-s ... ake-rotors
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-suppo ... ther-myths
The reasons given at these links, for the pulsing pedal that we think is caused by a 'misshapen' rotor, are not to do with the original rotor shape changing per se, but the thickness of the rotor changing due to the transfer of pad material to the rotor. Link 1 says that this phenomenon will be greater if the pads are pushed hard against the rotor during times of highest heat, such as the end of a period of hard braking. This supports my mechanic friend's 'bunk' theory--despite the fact that his theory did not include material transfer from the pads. It also supports my take on his theory of keeping my foot off the brake after hard braking, and seems to support the theory of a lighter brake pressure causing less of this transfer.
It would seem to me that metallic pads would lend themselves to more transfer of material, as there must be some 'melt' of metal right at the contact point of pad to rotor, perhaps the reason that metal impregnated pads do not fade so much as other pad materials is that they are actually bonding to the rotors. I have actually seen these deposits on rotors that had been used with metal pads.
I tend to keep a light pressure on the pedal, on and off for 2 or 3 second periods, coincident with using engine compression and gearing down, to keep my speed down on hills. However, I am not often skiing anymore, and probably don't travel as hilly roads as many do. I am of the bias of "easy does it" and try to avoid hard stops, usually by decelerating long before I need to slow down. But then again, I am mainly on highways, which tend to have less % grade than roads leading to ski areas and such.I have re-rotored and re-padded 3 cars in the last while, one has been sold, one has just been done, and the longest redone is my summer car, currently off the road. When I get it back on the road I will see if it has gotten a pulse back in the braking system!

I was saved by a grabbing right front brake once! Starting out on a December trip with semi frozen roads caused by daytime snow melt, with darkness setting in, and having a long way to go, I got up to about 60 Mph, and sure enough, in an almost dark area, I saw 2 deer just starting to cross the road from right to left, and four more in the ditch. I applied the brakes, and the front right began grabbing as was its tendency, and when the right front tire hit an area that was somewhat salty and unfrozen, it began to shriek, scaring the 2 deer off the highway, and the other 4 back into the ditch! Lotto ticket time!

A former woman friend mentioned once, when I was driving her B22 Volvo in the mountains, that she liked to rely on the brakes more than 'gearing down'. I asked her why that was her choice, and she said: "It costs a lot less to change brake parts than it does to change or repair engines and transmissions! Good Point! She also told me once: "I wouldn't want a car so powerful that I couldn't feel it working to climb a hill". Another great point, although it took many years for me to see it's wisdom....

Another friend, who kidded me about my '81 SR5 being a "Girly" car was a little more subdued when, after I saw him 2 or so years later after he moved to Washington State, and asked him what happened to his GMC "Astro" van. He had to tell me that it caught fire and was written off. It took a large Ford 1/2 ton sliding sideways on an icy street to make the "Girly" car inoperable, but many of it's parts live on!

I find that the 5 Spd Tercels are a wonderful blend of power versus gearing. Getting 42-44 Mpg on an Imperial gallon in my FWD is also quite all right. Sure, there's a few hills that require a downshift to 3rd sometimes when I'm carrying a lot of stuff, but I have to agree with what my friend Rachel said. I feel that little engine giving it's all, and I love the sound of it. I know that it would be more efficient with fuel injection, and with multi-valve head with better porting, and better brakes, and nicer styling, etc., etc., but if I want those things, I think I'll just buy a newer car and say goodbye to the best little car(s) that I have ever had. Perhaps I'll just drive Goldie (160,000 km's) until she & I drop dead, and (by that time) have us flung out into space in a rocket for some intergalactic travel!

[Petros]

that is a common modern myth among mechanics, and it is still bunk. I can not see how you can get any meaningful metal transfer from dissimaler materials, it could happen in some very rare conditions but I have never seen it 40 years of working on cars, both very old cars and new ones. It is a myth. I even read that brake pad materials can "contaminate" the rotors and cause bad brakes, what a crock, it just can not happen. I would bet no one every looked at a used rotor under a microsope, even if it could get embeded, that soft material will have almost no differance to the effect of the brakes.

On the Tercel the thin unvented rotors overheat and warp, that is a fact. I can not speak to other cars, most of the modern vented rotors would be difficult to warp, but on on the older unvented ones. Most of the first disk brake cars had unvented rotors and warping them was not uncommon, but perhaps not so much now.

[swanterky]

Yes, and I thought, after low km failure of '81 Tercel SR5 drive axles, that they were just a crappy design and and that the rebuilt axles were poorly constructed. That may have been true, but when I followed a knowledgeable mechanic's advice and stopped hard accelerating while turning, I was able to get many more km's out of the "crappy" rebuilt axles.
A lot of car problems can be avoided, or at least minimized, by adjusting one's driving habits.
Rotor warping has never been a big problem for me, despite the fact that I live in the mountains. Perhaps it has to do with the way I drive---easy acceleration and slow stopping--primarily to save fuel, and I am amazed on how many people are so positive that their opinion is right on this 'warped' subject. I don't make a habit of coming down steep hills at speed, and then laying on the brakes to slow down for turns. I am probably the kind of guy you hate to be behind because I go SLOW, not crawling, but I allow a lot of time to brake for turns. on steep downhills, using engine compression and braking together to keep my speed down.
I did a bunch of work on a high mileage 84 4WD Tercel for a friend's son. As the car came from the seller, to me first, I went with the buyer when he first drove it. The shift was difficult between neutral and reverse, and was accomplished easier, at certain times, by shifting into third, and then into reverse, and double-cluching on the shift. I explained this to him, but he could not seem to understand why this $300.00 car with 380,000 km's should not shift like a new sports car, and insisted on just pushing the clutch in, and 'ramming' it into reverse, despite the bad sounds coming from the transmission. The transmission lasted about 6 months, before reverse gear was inoperable.
I have had Tercels, with a difficult reverse shift, some that lasted over 4 years, and were shifting (with the 3rd to reverse method) when I sold the last one. Why?...because I altered my driving to suit the situation.
I am no hero--I despise crawling under cars so will do what it takes to make a car last---as I repair my cars myself. But I won't say how long, because doing something a certain way for a long time doesn't mean that I am doing it right. I learned that little gem by realizing at 30+ that I was still tying my shoelaces incorrectly (which made them come undone, and required 'knotting' the loops). But I am not scared to admit that, because changing the way that I do things is just fine if it saves work or makes things last..
Things are what they are--it's our choice how we deal with them...

[Petros]

of course you will not warp the brakes if you do not use them, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with the myth of embedded brake pad material into the rotors.

The cv axles wear more the larger the angle on them, if there was no angle at all, there is no movement in the cv joint at all, and hence no wear. when you turn and accelerate you have the most amount of movement in the CV joints plus the largest acceleration load on them, yes you will get less wear when you do not load the cv joint when it has the largest angle on them. Anyone that knows how the cv joint works should understand this idea. Just because your mechanic understands this does not mean he knows the Tercel rotors do not warp but get pad material embeded in them.

I have seen Tercel rotors turn blue and purple and get covered in cracks from over heating, I have put dial indicators on them to measure that they were warped. the failure of the Tercel rotors was due to overheating because they are just too small to stop a T4wd after a long down hill run. They get hot and than warp. The heavier vented rotors are almost impossible to warp, I badly overheated the brakes on our Ford one ton (pulling a travel trailer) down a long down hill run in on vacation in Idaho. the brakes go so hot it was peeling the paint off the steel wheels and boiling the grease out of the bearings, but the vented rotors did not warp, after it cooled down the brakes worked fine. that will not happen with an unvented rotor like we have on the Tercel. Bigger brakes on the Tercel are a very big improvement. Stops faster, will not overheat, less pedal pressure, better stopping power even with engine off (no brake booster).

[swanterky]

Of Course!