Lifting a Terk?

takza · Post by **takza** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:55 am

If he has new spring on the front...then he really has it boosted and those Max- Airs do the job.

I'll email Monroe and ask if that number means anything to them...they also have some .pdf files that give shock dimensions for a custom fit.

The key to boosting the car is the air shocks.

icE · Post by **icE** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:29 am

air shocks help make the ride nice and comfy too don't they? I'm thinking of getting some for my next car, so i wont feel the bumps!

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:30 am

The air part sounds nice, but the air just acts as another type of spring...don't think you will feel like you are floating.....need to talk to those dudes on the street corners for that

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:53 am

Response from Monroe:

Thank you for contacting Tenneco Automotive regarding your 1983 Toyota
Tercel 4 wd wagon. We do not offer air shocks by application for your
vehicle.

I was able to cross reference the part number given below* to
MA700.

*48700-P263V

Assuming the air shock was matched up by dimensions which voids
out the warranty and will not guarantee the ride.

For further assistance please feel free to contact our technical assistance line at 734-384-7809 M-F 8:30 am to 5:30 pm EST.

Galen · Post by **Galen** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:08 pm

Sorry I haven't replyed to my own thread! I'm looking to build my own lift for my tercel (If I can find one!). I'm looking at a 3-4" lift and I will probably be running 29" Super Swampers on it. Also a Weber carb to boost the hp and torque to turn those tires. What do you guys think? Also if there is anyone in the PNW looking to sell a goo wagon, let me know because I'm looking to buy!

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:27 pm

With that much, I'd really think you'd need to look into swaybar (at the least) relocation mods to prevent some big issues. I'm sure that there are many mods you'd need for that much lift to prevent BIG handling and safety issues. You might need to look at something to make the wheels remain "out" a bit. You don't want to compromise flip-safety by BOTH raising the center of gravity AND narrowing the "base" you have to prevent over-turning. I mean, 4 inches is not much, but still... Reason to be concerned. Especially if you plan to do some offroading.

Lateer · Post by **Lateer** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:06 pm

Galen wrote: Also a Weber carb to boost the hp and torque to turn those tires.

The Weber most used on here is a 32/36 DGV or DGAV. The DGv comes with a manual choke, whereas the DGAV has an automatic choke that gets plumbed in line with the heater hoses.

You'll need some sort of manifold adapter. Redline Weber reccomends one, although I'm not sure how easy they are to get. Failing that, get an aluminium block and make your own.
<a href='http://www.racetep.com/weber.html' target='_blank'>RaceTep is one good site for Weber parts...</a><a href='http://www.redlineweber.com/' target='_blank'>Redline Weber is another...</a>

Unfortunately, the 2" air cleaner that comes with a DGV/DGAV Weber won't fit underneath the Tercel bonnet. So, there's a 9" round air cleaner that's only 1.5" high that fits a treat.

One of the major problems I've had with mine is the reversal of the PCV system. Basically, the carb sucks the crankcase gases out in the aircleaner, dragging a whole heap of oil with it. I'm getting the manifold adapter drilled, tapped and a fitting installed so I can run a line from the PCV valve on the rocker cover to an oil catchcan then to below the carburetor. With a bit of luck, this'll stop the aircleaner element getting covered in blow-by oil.
What I'm also planning to do with mine is get the snorkel adapter for the DGV and plumb in an air intake from down below the radiator, to give the car a lungful of nice, cool, clean air. The air cleaner where it is sucks in the hottest air in the engine bay.

You might not notice a whole heap of horsepower with the Weber, but what you will notice is a major increase in fuel economy. I find with mine that due to the jets on it, it tends to give me real punch whenever I open the secondary throat anywhere above about 2600rpm. I could re-jet it for power all over the place, but haven't got the cash to buy a complete jetting kit. They cost a fair bit here in Hobart. There are four adjustable parts per throat i.e. the air jet, the emulsion tube, the main jet and the idle jet. Double it, as there's two throats, then add in the power jet and you can see that the DGV (or in fact any downdraught Weber) is a remarkably adaptable piece of machinery. There's no single setting for a Weber. I can send you my jet settings, but I'm sure they won't be right for your car, or the way you drive.

The important thing to do before you install the Weber is make sure the rest of the engine is in really good nick. Tappets, valve clearances, bearings, timing all need to be spot-on before you go messing about with a new carb.
Once you've installed the Weber, with the new gaskets and all that, you need to get the thing tuned. Either go to a mechanic with a gas analyser, or get a hold of a ColourTune spark plug from Gunsons.
<a href='http://www.gunsons.co.uk' target='_blank'>You'll find them under Exhaust Gas Analysers section of the Tuning Menu.</a>
This is the easiest way I've found to get the mixture spot-on for your machine. It's a glass-bodied sparkplug, which enables you to see the colour of the flame inside the cylinder. From there, you can easily tune the car to the correct mixture.

Fitting a Weber can be a pain in the arse. But once it's done, it's a great modification to do. But beware. Carburetor modifications are illegal in some parts of the world. California springs to mind. And don't forget to make sure you can do this legally, without having to resort to engineers certificates and other crap like that. I'm still not sure the Department of Motor Vehicles here in Tasmania would be real happy if they opened the bonnet on my Tercel.

Dirtmagnet · Post by **Dirtmagnet** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:12 pm

Galen, Depending on how "stock" you want to keep your Tercel, You may be opening up a can of worms. To get 29's under it, I think will require more than a 4" lift, unless you are planning on cutting out the fender wells. You may be able to do it with a suspension/body lift combo. There is not much room around the rear tire. My 26's are approx 1" away from the front of the rear fender. You can't cut it out much or you will get into the rear doors.

My experience with the approx 2" lift and 26" tires. Going much higher with a suspension lift will start getting into steep angles on the front lower arms and drive shafts. And as Typrus mentioned, the sway bar will probably have to relocate. The rear would most likely need a longer arm to change the geometry a bit.

We took it out to the hills this weekend. The bigger tires, really rob the power. You do not notice it on the road, but when you are climbing you really have to keep the rev's up. The bigger tires takes away the low end torque, thats even in E.L. I ask the previous owner about it. He said it was a noticable difference when he put the larger dia tires on. It still climbs like a mountain goat, but it is weak. Also on the set-up I have now, when we got into a twist on an off camber, the rear tires will bottom out into the top of the fenders. We added more air in the rear shocks to lift it about 1" more. This should help.

With 29's you will probably have to change out the gearing in the front and rear to get the power back especially keeping a stock motor. I do not know if there is much aftermarket gearing for these cars.

Not trying to discourage anyone, I'm all for it, but these are my observations after laying under the vehicle this weekend and day dreaming. I would love to see 29's under one. My son is already talking 33's to put under his. That starts getting into the Baja type undercarraige. Oh boy!

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:54 am

Dirtmagnet wrote: We took it out to the hills this weekend. The bigger tires, really rob the power. You do not notice it on the road, but when you are climbing you really have to keep the rev's up. The bigger tires takes away the low end torque, thats even in E.L. I ask the previous owner about it. He said it was a noticable difference when he put the larger dia tires on. It still climbs like a mountain goat, but it is weak. Also on the set-up I have now, when we got into a twist on an off camber, the rear tires will bottom out into the top of the fenders. We added more air in the rear shocks to lift it about 1" more. This should help.

FYI.......my experiences with the 195/60/14s, which are about 2% greater diameter than the OEM tires, is that I've seen no wheel rubbing at all in some extreme moves with 600 lbs in the car and good torque offroad. So you can get away with this size at least. Though I do have the boosters all around.

Probably will go with 175/75/14s next time...at around 7% over OEM. Hoping that this size will give good mileage pumped up to 32-33 PSI for road travel...and when offroad I'd drop the pressures to 15-20 PSI(?) for better traction & torque.

205/75-R14s are about 13% oversized...bet if you'd drop the pressure some so they were lower you'd get some torque & traction back offroad.

Hey DM...can you say how those air shocks ride? And what pressures you are using...are you anywhere near the MAX pressure for the air shocks.

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:52 am

As far as I can tell...if you ask for a pair of MA700 air shocks you will get the same ones that DM has on his car.....

"The new number you'll need is MA700.

Information Representative

Sandra"

So the 48700-P263V number references to MA700........

My guess is that these shocks might be made for a heavier car...thus no ride guarantee.........

One place you can find them is:

<a href='https://www.rockauto.com/' target='_blank'>https://www.rockauto.com/</a>

Monroe part # MA700 Max-Air adjustable package of 2 $75.79

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:13 pm

Few things. One of which is a request for DM. Could you post pictures of your Terc with approx .5-1 inch extra lift in the back versus the front? I'm curious as to how the "aggressive" stance would look on these cars.
Another thing. I really need more ground clearance! I was riding up on a huge snow-drift (more ice-drift at this point) and bottomed out a bit. Nothing bad as the part right under the engine bay was nice and soft, but it still made a nice thunk sound. Man, that 4x4 is AWESOME! This said snow drift is about at an angle of.. Maybe 6%? Its pretty dang steep at any rate, but I muscled right up!

A thought for torque- Either throw in a bigger engine, or you could try freeing up the exhaust flow. Mild porting perhaps? Headers maybe?

At any rate... How could you lift something like this 8 inches? I don't want to but my friends (two of whom are looking at Terc's for first cars) want to know. I know the basics of what is necessary, like lowering the sway bar, extending the driveshaft/axles.. But how could you lower everything but the engine down? Pretty much jacking the body above the "chassis", for as much of one this unibody car has. Any ideas? I'm thinking of something that would keep camber the same as stock and the width-wise wheel base the same.

Dirtmagnet · Post by **Dirtmagnet** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:10 pm

Takza, The ride is very good with the air shocks both on and off road. If anything with 4 adults(large kids) offroad, it may be a little soft. I am running 60 psi in the shocks now. That is what it needs to be level with the front. Not sure how high the rear will go up before the shocks top out,(or rear linkage stops it) then it should get stiffer instead of going up. I should measure the shock length and see how that compares to the MA700.(I found a PDF with lengths and travel on Monroe's web site) I think I will play with air pressure tomorrow.

Typrus, Tomorrow I will get a side photo and I will check the ground clearance at the motor. Not sure about the 8" lift without a lot of changes. Most likely the only way is part suspension and part body lift. I personally do not think the little beast is designed for serious offroading. Not to say it can't be adapted though.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:45 am

Dirtmagnet wrote: Takza, The ride is very good with the air shocks both on and off road. If anything with 4 adults(large kids) offroad, it may be a little soft. I am running 60 psi in the shocks now. That is what it needs to be level with the front. Not sure how high the rear will go up before the shocks top out,(or rear linkage stops it) then it should get stiffer instead of going up. I should measure the shock length and see how that compares to the MA700.(I found a PDF with lengths and travel on Monroe's web site) I think I will play with air pressure tomorrow.

I'm not sure she was leveling with me on the exact part number...I'd take the old shock in and compare top/bottom mountings and closed/open length before I'd buy them......

I'd like to hear how your wagon does offroad with some air out of those tires.....if you could get them down to about 2/3s of onroad ride height...it'd be interesting at least. Bet you'd have a tank on your hands......

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:19 am

Typrus wrote: A thought for torque- Either throw in a bigger engine, or you could try freeing up the exhaust flow. Mild porting perhaps? Headers maybe?

Big difference with advanced timing....

<a href='http://tercel4wd.com/invision/index.php ... 0#entry542' target='_blank'>http://tercel4wd.com/invision/index.php ... ntry542</a>

...but do it right.......

Dirtmagnet · Post by **Dirtmagnet** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:47 am

Here is a side view with the rear aprrox 1" higher than the front. Not a good place to measure from. I measured the body side moulding to get this difference. This photo would make a good Christmas card! lol

Also I measured under the front of the car for clearance. The lowest part is the front crossmember, and it is 11" off the ground.

Also here is a pic of the rear tire clearance of the fender well. It is actually less than 1". Probably closer 3/4".

Just put the carb back on gonna take it for a test run. I will get some measurements on the air shocks in a bit.