Need torque!!

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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GTSSportCoupe
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Victoria BC, Canada

Post by GTSSportCoupe »

Well, I finally talked my wife into doing some 'exploring' in the tercel this past weekend. We went out on a bunch of old logging roads, and I took some pretty crazy 4x4 detours. I was trying to get from one highway to another (about 80kms apart) strictly through poorly mapped logging roads. I had managed to get a forestry map from a friend ahead of time which had things mapped out ok. Unfortunetly I did not make it through though as the road was gated at one point because of active logging. It was right at a bridge, so there was no way around (unless you were driving a D8 Cat instead of a tercel :lol: ). Was quite a piss off anyhow. But I did have fun 4x4ing up some very steep treacherous pieces of road. I took a couple of pics which I will post here after developing and scanning them (film camera).

Anyhow, I found that even with my summer high performance low profile tires on the car, it still had unbelievable 4wding ability. However, I found that even in EL 4wd mode, the rpms were really low (<2krpm) when crawling up steep hills, and I had to keep the throttle mashed to keep the car from stalling out. This was a little scary at times. In conclusion, if I expect to do much more of this sort of stuff, I really <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>need more torque!</span></span> Not sure if I will ever get around to doing anything about this problem though. I think the best solution is a 7AFE transplant, or a 7AC or 7AGE hybrid. I need at least half again as much torque in the low rpm range for 4wding. I've done lots of 4wding in Landcruisers and Ford/GM 4x4 pickups which have loads of low end torque and have never noticed power as a problem. The tercel is different however with it's tiny little engine. Too bad the new 3AC I installed is in such good condition. It seems a shame to replace it already.
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
tercel4wdrules
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My tercel:: None
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by tercel4wdrules »

Do you think you would of made it with a Corolla All-Trac or a V6 Camry All-Trac?
2015 Honda Fit EX "Malachi"
2001 Toyota Corolla CE "Eugene"
GTSSportCoupe
Highest Ranking Member
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Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Victoria BC, Canada

Post by GTSSportCoupe »

Don't get me wrong, I did make it; it's just that the engine was at 100% of it's ability. Had I needed more power, I would have been SOL.

I imagine a corolla or camry 4wd would have had the power, but their bodies are heavier/larger which would have caused other problems.

BTW, there is a Camry 4wd for sale in my city right now. I'm tempted to check it out for fun. I also know of a Corolla 4wd Sedan (very rare) with a 4age already swapped into it. (It's a long way from me though).
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
tercel4wdrules
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:23 pm
My tercel:: None
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by tercel4wdrules »

Oops! :blink: I should of have rephrased the question that it would of have been faster (maybe not) to use a Corolla/Camry All-Trac, but like you said these are heavier than the Tercel and there would of been other issues. Never seen a Camry All-Trac (perhaps I should look harder), but there is an abundance of it's sedan and regular wagon brothers. V6 power would be nice, right?
2015 Honda Fit EX "Malachi"
2001 Toyota Corolla CE "Eugene"
takza
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:28 am
Location: Tibetan plateau

Post by takza »

If you have the "slope meter" thingy on the dash....see if you can manage a 30 degree slope in EL at around 1200 RPM. My car will.

Hate to mention it again, but have you tried advancing your timing?

<a href='http://www.lubedev.com/articles/octane.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.lubedev.com/articles/octane.htm</a>

Check my writeup in the Repair area first though...things you need to watch for.

That cross country logging road stuff can be fun, scary, and frustrating at the same time. You never know how it's going to go...just be happy you get back with no real problems?

I could use more torque...but then I'm not about to mess too much with an engine that gets at least 6K miles per quart of oil.

It's possible that retarding the valve timing by 3-5 degrees might improve the engine's torque...something I might try in the future.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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20vtercel
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Post by 20vtercel »

Hey GTSSportCoupe

I still have my 20v!!! everything you need to make it work too!!!

Turbo's gone tho <_<
'84 Tercel HB, 202hp Turbocharged 20v, 4WD, Lowered, Custom exhaust, Mangles Rims with Avid V4 Rubber! Hola!!
GTSSportCoupe
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Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Victoria BC, Canada

Post by GTSSportCoupe »

Takza,

The hill was around 20-25 degrees in the really harsh section. It was not smooth road by any means but had huge ruts, loose gravel, and large rocks. I straddled the ruts obviously to keep from bottoming out. I did have the timing in my last tercel (87) advanced from the 5 degree base to around 10 degrees. It did give quite a bit of a power improvement, but I don't think it would have helped much in the situation I was in on the weekend. Maybe I just have to get used to 4wding with limited power.

20vtercel,

Sooooooooooo very tempting still!! I sold my AE86 to pay off some debt, but could still drop that sucker into my tercel I guess :P . I will still be driving out to central Canada in late Aug early Sept. Maybe I'll do the extra drive out to Winterpeg and check out the 20v. ;) I don't think the 20v would do good for 4wding, but it would sure make street driving fun. :P
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
takza
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 4414
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:28 am
Location: Tibetan plateau

Post by takza »

I tested the old 5 BTDC I used vs current 15 BTDC and the difference was very obvious. Doubt if I'll go back, but probably should retard it a couple of degrees. My car will ping up thru 1700 RPM...but I usually shift right above that. So 98% of the time I don't get pinging.

Unfortunately, when the going gets tough and you have to have the power at low speeds...crawling...you also have the pinging.

Generally, anytime you have pinging...you are losing some power, but probably not when compared to 5 BTDC.

If you had it a 2000 RPM on that hill...an advanced ignition would have made a lot of difference.

I'll try to quit bugging you about though.

Any 4WD has it's limitations....a V8 has the torque, but you pay for it at the pump.

I'm thinking of trying some all season 205/60/13s on my old wheels.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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20vtercel
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Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:34 am
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Post by 20vtercel »

GTSSportCoupe wrote: 20vtercel,

Sooooooooooo very tempting still!!  I sold my AE86 to pay off some debt, but could still drop that sucker into my tercel I guess  :P .  I will still be driving out to central Canada in late Aug early Sept.  Maybe I'll do the extra drive out to Winterpeg and check out the 20v.  ;)  I don't think the 20v would do good for 4wding, but it would sure make street driving fun.  :P
sure.

driving an extra 9hrs to "SEE" a 20v is dedication.

just gimme a holla. I'm about an hr west of winnipeg.

Think of it this way...you still have about 30 ft lbs or torque at low rpm's and about 70 more at 5000. not to mention over 100hp more bone stock!!!

think about that!!! :D
'84 Tercel HB, 202hp Turbocharged 20v, 4WD, Lowered, Custom exhaust, Mangles Rims with Avid V4 Rubber! Hola!!
tercel4wdrules
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Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:23 pm
My tercel:: None
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Post by tercel4wdrules »

I noticed that the 7A-FE had excellent torque characteristics at 2800 RPM and would be great for off-roading purposes as you mentioned GTSSportCoupe.
2015 Honda Fit EX "Malachi"
2001 Toyota Corolla CE "Eugene"
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