New Head Gasket Time

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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Kozuto_98
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
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New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

I'm finally going to pull the trigger on replacing the head gasket on my Tercel. For the past few months I've been trying to track down the coolant leaks
that have plagued my motor, and while I have sorted out a lot of it, and the leak is much better, there is still 2 culprits that I'm left with.
The big 2 leaks I had were the o-rings on the bypass tube and the water pump gasket. The only things I can narrow the relatively small leak now
is either the o-rings behind the water pump to the block, or a head gasket break. I need to replace my head gasket regardless as there is a jump break
somewhere causing a small amount of coolant burning/compression into the cooling system. This has become a bit more noticeable upon startups
and the overall scent of my coolant. Thankfully, as of right now, as long as I top up my coolant every week I can prevent overheating, but this
really needs to be fixed.

Another problem that just came up is unfortunately the plastic vacuum bit (I forget the name) on the top outlet to the radiator gave up on me.
the plastic cap popped off, and I lost the spring. I'm assuming this happened while driving. I understand that this is an important piece and can't just
be replaced with an off the shelf part, but thankfully I know a few places I can go for a replacement. I'm not sure what caused this part to fail, but
I'm just going to assume age.

I already have a new fel-pro head gasket and new head bolts ready to go. Is it worth copper spraying the head gasket on these motors?
Also, before I get started on this, what are some other common areas I should check for coolant leaks?
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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BaileySims
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by BaileySims »

Are you talking about the tvsv? The little plastic deal with 4 or so vacuum ports on it? If so, i may have one for ya.
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Kozuto_98
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

BaileySims wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:54 am Are you talking about the tvsv? The little plastic deal with 4 or so vacuum ports on it? If so, i may have one for ya.
Yes sir! it's the TVSV that broke. For some reason I was thinking T-VIS, must've had 4A-GE stuff on the mind.
If I can't source one locally I'll get in touch, thank you! It still runs with this being broken, but I will replace it when I do the head gasket.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Petros
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Petros »

if you had other coolant leaks, that lead to running hot, or overheating, almost certainly the head gasket is not compromised. you can also verify by removing the #1 and #2 spark plug, and with a flash light, inspect the piston top through the spark plug hole. the top of the piston will be covered with carbon deposits. if it looks all clean, with bare aluminum piston top showing, that means it has been "steam cleaned" by the coolant leaking into the cylinder. the head gasket almost always fails between #1 and #2 cylinders, it is the hottest part of the head.

make sure you follow the head gaskets replacement guild I wrote up some time ago, it has recommendations for a few mods you can do to improve the durability of the head gasket. here is the link:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6059

Also, while the head is off, I highly recommend replacing the exhaust valves, and the valve stem seals, they tend to wear out fairly fast and they are inexpensive to replace.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

I'll check what the tops of pistons 1 and 2 look like today. I'm fairly certain my exhaust valves should be fine, but I'll keep them in mind if I notice
anything worn out. My engine only just recently went over 300000 KM (~186400 miles) so hopefully all is well.
What are the OEM specs for the valve last? I was probably going to do a quick seat clean up and check the lash while the head is off.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

I checked the tops of the pistons, 1 and 2 are fairly normal looking. Not a whole lot of carbon but certainly not steam cleaned as you said.
3 and 4 on the other hand are for sure way too clean given the age of the motor. not sure how common that is?
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Petros
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Petros »

it can fail between 3 and 4 too, it is far less common. the front of the engine is where the coolant is hottest where it leaves the engine to go back into the radiator. but if there is a vac leak in the aft part of the manifold it will make the last two cylinders run hot.

you can not tell when the exhaust valves are bad, they get heat damaged, they run extra hot. what happens after you rebuild the engine after a few more months of driving, a piece breaks off the exhaust valve, sometimes a big enough piece to to severe damage to the engine. not worth the risk, they are like $6 each on Rockauto.com, well worth it. read my head gasket replacement guild, I explain the emissions system cause the exhaust to run extra hot. set your spark timing at 10 deg BTDC to lower the exhaust temps, and protect the exhaust valves. if it has more than about 100k miles on it, not worth reusing the old exhaust valves.

please trust me on this, I have learned the hard way, and have since seen many other fully stock tercels have their engines trashed when the exhaust valve suddenly broke up. I bought a nice T4wd cheap once from a very unhappy owner when an exhaust valve broke up and trashed the engine, bent the crank and connecting rod, destroyed the head, only the block was salvageable. it was fully stock.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
jimcrazy
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by jimcrazy »

i have replaced 3 head gaskets over the years,,2 were on 3a one on my 4a ,,all went between 3-4
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Go a set of exhaust valves, some timing gear, and a few odds and ends on the way. Thanks for the pointers everyone.
I can make the car work how it is until the stuff comes in, just have to go a little easier on it.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
drafting3d
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by drafting3d »

While your head is off maybe have a quick read of this form oldskewltoy if you need some inspiration!
https://www.aeu86.org/forum/Thread-OST- ... AC-content
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

drafting3d wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:18 pm While your head is off maybe have a quick read of this form oldskewltoy if you need some inspiration!
https://www.aeu86.org/forum/Thread-OST- ... AC-content
If I'm not mistaken, isn't that an HKS side draft manifold? That'd be really cool to see on a 3A-C head, but I imagine those manifold plus the carbs
would command a pretty penny. Very interesting read, thanks for that!
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Got started doing the head gasket today.
I managed to find the culprit behind the problems, a broken head bolt. When I was taking out the head bolts one of them was already loose, and
at first I thought I had already done this bolt, but after taking it out I found the problem.

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I got a couple ideas on how I could get the rest of the bolt out, or I could just swap bottom ends.
If anyone has any ideas let me know.
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1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Petros
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Petros »

soak it in ATF or other penetrating oil (ATF works the best), heat the block around it, and drill a hole in the center of the broken bolt and use an "EZ-out" tool. you can just buy the one size you need for less than $10. at most auto parts stores. if you can get close to the broken face, sometimes you can use a pointed chisel, and tap it backwards rotation to get it out.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Thanks for the suggestions. What's left of the bolt is flush with the deck surface so I'm a little weary on using a chisel, but I'll try to find my EZ out set.
Other thing I was gonna try is welding a nut to the top of it. I did this once before on my 97 Tercel when a head bolt was stripped.
All else fails I will either try a timesert or swap bottom ends if it's really screwed.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Kozuto_98
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Re: New Head Gasket Time

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Little update on the whole situation.

Tried as hard as I could to get the last bit of the head bolt out, but I conceded after exhausting all my options.
In exchange for my bottom end, Jimcrazy set me up with the bottom end from my step father's 88. It also had a blown head gasket and a little rust,
but we tore it apart and gave it some freshening up. Bores were honed, new front and rear main seals, and a new pilot bushing. Also got a fresh
pickup tube seal and oil pan seal. The bores of hole 3 and 4 had some rust but we cleaned it up good, still some dark sports but I'm not worried
about it. This block has been re-bored to 0.04" (78.5mm) in the past so I have to use the pistons from it. Some of the rings were frozen to the pistons
and sadly broke when i was trying to get them off, so I have a fresh set on the way.

I didn't get any pictures of it, but we compared the 3A and 4A head gaskets and it seems like a 4A one will work with a 3A. It already has the extra coolant paths, so it might be interesting to look into this later.

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20210421_143355.jpg
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1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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