Manual Steering?

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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Kozuto_98
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Manual Steering?

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Lost my power steering last night to some trash in the road. Whole line got sliced.
I understand these Tercels came with and without power steering, so I'm curious how much I'd have to do to swap the racks and other such parts.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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splatterdog
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by splatterdog »

Not ideal but remove the belt and now it's manual. At some point after I gave away T4 #1, it went the distance like that. Effort wasn't too heavy.
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rer233
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by rer233 »

What line got cut? Rock Auto sells both pressure hoses and you can make the return line out of 3/8" copper tubing. In the event you want to go with a manual rack, you'll need the rack (natch), outer tie rod ends (unless they come with the rack), one rubber rack mount bushing, and the steering shaft with both u-joints (I assume you have the "late model" tilt steering wheel.) Also if you want to make it "factory correct", the strut mount should be rotated 180 degrees to reduce camber and make the car (somewhat) easier to steer. In the event you decide to go that route, I might be interested in buying your old steering shaft, as I'm considering converting my latest Tercel wagon to PS.

Hope this helps.
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
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simon84
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by simon84 »

I just converted mine from power to manual steering. I had the transmission out so that made access easier. I had to modify the steering column where it attaches to the steering rack. No mods needed to the steering column at firewall or inside the car. Xirdneh has made a video on this steering column modification that is very helpful. You'll want to get another steering column U-joint to cut up and make an extension to the steering column. I was also adding engine & trans mount spacers to drop those to adjust the CV axle angle since I have a strut mount spacer lift. So that made my steering column extension longer than what Xirdneh recommends. All I can say is measure twice, cut once.
I am quite happy with manual steering. And happy to have one less belt sucking HP from the engine and less stuff to go wrong on the car.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Kozuto_98
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Mine is the later model with the tilt wheel. (Why didn't later Tercels get this?!?!?)
What I've done for now is I've removed the belt and drained what fluid remained, which was maybe a cup, and just looped the system.
I find there isn't a whole lot of difference in feel without the power assist, except when turning slow. Having no power steering does make the feel
of my messed up alignment more noticeable, but I can deal with it for a little bit.

If I can get my hands on a complete manual rack (tie rods, bushings, shaft and joints) I'll probably hold onto my PS rack for spare parts unless I feel
I don't need it. I'll swap in the manual rack once I get around to dropping the 4A-FE in. It'll be a lot easier to do it then, in the mean time I'll just
have to suck it up.

Thanks for the pointers on the conversion!

I don't mind no power steering, I used to daily a 1990 Civic hatchback 4 speed that was as basic as you could get. RIP you magnificent beast.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Mattel
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My tercel:: 1988 Corolla 4wd Wagon (AKA Corolla All-trac) 5speed, AC, Power Sunroof, Windows, Mirrors, Steering, Locking, Diff Lock, 14" Corolla SX Alloys with Silica Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, 210,000kms
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Mattel »

Apparantly our cars were one of the first with speed variable assistance in power steering. so it only really cuts in at low speed parking etc. Thats probably why it doesn't feel much different at speed.
Previous: 83 Tercel SR5 4wd, 84 Tercel SR5 4wd
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms
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Petros
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Petros »

I have owned and driven both types extensively, presuming the system is in good condition, for most driving you will not notice the difference. the only time you do is when parking it, or jockeying back and forth to turn around in a tight space. Many of the early '83-84 models came with out power steering, it seems however that all of the later ones only came with power steering. though it may have been an option, all of the dealers got their tercel inventory with PS. there also does not seem to be a difference with SR5 vs. DLX, they could either have PS or not. My first beater '83 Tercel4wd was an SR5 and had manual steering.

i considered converting my current daily driver to manual steering to get ride of the pump and extra weight up front, but I drive rough gravel roads daily to get to my house. I notice that the power steering is less effort to keep the car pointed in the right direction, less chance of steering wheel snatch if you hit a chuck hole or rock. it is much less tiring to drive on rough roads with the PS, and ultimately I want to complete my 4age swap project, and that engine is heavier than the 3a/4a engine, so I thought the power assist might be desirable.

My current one has been very reliable, nearly 400k miles and I have never had to service it, I only check the fluid level every once in a while. I do not think I have ever even changed the fluid, it has no leaks and still works great, rack is tight and responsive. I do not imagine it takes much power to run it, and I have a lightly modified 4ac engine, so I do not notice the power draw as much as the 3a engined Tercels I have owned.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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simon84
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by simon84 »

For what it's worth, mine is a 1987 with tilt steering.

I did need to do something with the rubber mount on the passenger side of the manual rack. Can't remember if there was a larger rubber sleeve that went in there or I managed to double it up to get a good fit.

I think the tie rods are same for power and manual. Can anyone confirm this?
I kept the ones off the power steering rack for spares since they are not very old.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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dlb
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by dlb »

Ooooh, a fave topic of mine. I agree with Simon, with such an anemic little engine it's a waste to devote any of the precious little hp to power steering. I haven't done the proper conversion like Simon mentioned, I just looked at doing it on a 4wd corolla I used to own. I found lots of articles online on how to do it, apparently it's a popular mod with the older Civic crowd. But I did just remove the power steering belt on a previous car, like SD mentioned. It worked ok for me but was definitely a bit much for my wife. But part of the attraction of full manual steering is not having the pump, belt, and lines taking up space in the engine bay too so removing the belt only addresses a small portion of the issue for me.

Fortunately, I lucked out with my current FWD corolla wagon and it came with manual steering, huzzah.
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Petros
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Petros »

simon84 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm For what it's worth, mine is a 1987 with tilt steering.

the tilt steering only came on the '85 and later, it was actually a federal requirement, someone at the DOT and NTSB thought it was safer to have the steering wheel adjust up and down to fit the driver better, and made it a requirement.

I have owned both types, and I know some have swapped over to from the fixed to the tilt, everything will swap over. I kind of liked the idea, but for my size, the fixed height is right where I want it, so I did not see the point in switching over. it adds a bit of weight and complexity to the cars steering shaft to have the tilt steering feature.
simon84 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm I did need to do something with the rubber mount on the passenger side of the manual rack. Can't remember if there was a larger rubber sleeve that went in there or I managed to double it up to get a good fit.
as I recall, because the power rack is larger dia. the mounting brackets on the cross member are a bit larger. for a proper swap you also have to change the cross member. but adding a filler or extra layer of bushing in the mount will likely work fine. There are MR2 after market mounting bushings made of stiffer polyurethane, that supposedly improves handling response by taking out some of the flex of the softer rubber bushings. so doubling up the bushings may slightly affect steering response, though on a gravel road, or off road, likley it would make no difference. you will also get less vibration transmitted to the steering wheel with a soft rubber double bushing mount. these MR2 polyurethane performance rack mounts will fit in the tercel on the manual steering tercels, the rack is the same type.

simon84 wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm I think the tie rods are same for power and manual. Can anyone confirm this?
the inner tie rod ends are the same, but the outer ones (the longer ones with the arm) are not. the power rack is larger, so the outer tie rods, left and right, are different length for power vs. manual rack.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
FriendOfEvanW
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My tercel:: 1984 Tercel DX Wagon 2WD
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by FriendOfEvanW »

How much extra wear and tear is put on the rack by deleting the power steering belt and pump? I’ve heard that the racks equipped with power steering aren’t built to handle the extra stress. My power steering fluid leaks like a sieve, so this is an option I’ve definitely thought about.
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irowiki
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by irowiki »

I've heard of people looping the system so it still circulates somewhat.
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Petros
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Petros »

it will work for a while. get the leak fixed and do not worry about it. these racks are used on most of the toyota line up, and for cars much heavier than the tercel. I would not worry too much about it wearing out, presuming you eventually get it fixed.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Kozuto_98
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Petros wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:16 am it will work for a while. get the leak fixed and do not worry about it. these racks are used on most of the toyota line up, and for cars much heavier than the tercel. I would not worry too much about it wearing out, presuming you eventually get it fixed.
Was there any difference in the steering ratio when using different racks, say for example one from the AW11 MR2?
I know of 2 AW11s in a yard about an hour out if I eventually need parts.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Petros
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Re: Manual Steering?

Post by Petros »

the MR2 (first gen) has a "quick ratio" rack, they are not powered, so it would save weight and make for a responsive steering. I know someone that installed one in a Tercel4wd. seems you would build some good arm muscles if you had to park it in tight spaces regularly, but I understand the whole thing will swap over. they are essentially the same rack, with different ratio gearing.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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