Tercel back on the road

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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marlinh
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My tercel:: 'Everett' Blue 87 4WD Wagon (Rocky 86, recently retired)
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by marlinh »

Sounds good Simon!
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simon84
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Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

Another update on the front axles/wheel bearings. I noticed a trans fluid leak at the axle seals on the front diff. There was also a shimmy in the steering wheel on the highway. When I had the car up on blocks and rotated the front wheels, the transmission was moving sideways back and forth about a quarter inch and it looked like the axles were not fully inserted, which is why they were leaking. They were new seals when I put the new axles in. So I took off the steering knuckles and pounded on the ends of the CV axles with a large wooden mallet. I put the axle nut on so I had a larger flatter target to hit and so it would do less damage to my mallet. About 30-50 whacks got them in another 1/4 inch or so. I had already pounded on them plenty when I installed them. Then I noticed a small amount of play in the wheel bearing on the right side (the side that was leaking at the axle seal). That wheel bearing only had 200km on it so I think it was beat up a little bit from the sideways pressure from the axle shaft. The axle shaft needs to be in all the way so that the center shaft between the two knuckles can float back and forth as it rotates.
I got a new bearing pressed in and when I put it back together it all fit better, the transmission wobble had gone and steering wheel shimmy was gone.
The axles were Cardone brand from Rockauto. I've never had such a hard time inserting axles. I'd be interested if anyone has recommendations for axles in future. I've watched a bunch of youtube videos on cv axle issues so I know some of the tricks. I suspect that some axles are just made to proper specs and some are just a bit large and make a tighter fit on the splines.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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dlb
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My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by dlb »

The saga continues! At least it sounds like you finally got it all sorted out. No more leak from the CV axle seals now that the axles are fully inserted?
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Petros
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by Petros »

that is kind of unusual, but anything is possible with CV axles, most of them on the after market are junk. And do not bother with rebuilt cv axles, most of those are junk out of the box. if you can, only buy new cv axles, but unfortunately the number of companies still making new axles for these cars is getting smaller every year.

the original high quality cv axles that Toyota bought for these cars when new has long discontinued making them many years ago since the after market had dwindled down too low for them to keep them in inventory. So we have to buy what we can get. for several years I was buying the EMPI brand, they used to have a good reputation. You can buy them new, but EMPI, a US company, was having them made in China. I had several wear out way too fast, and one even blew out the inner CV joint (which usually never wears out since the angle on that one is much smaller than the outer one). that was the last straw from me, no longer buy that brand. Most of the Cardone remanufactured cv axles were junk right out of the box, others on the fourm went through 4 or 5 axles to finally find a pair of good ones. I was in need of a pair of good axles in a hurry, the only ones the local NAPA store could get next day was Cardone, when I went to pick them up I opened the box and rotated all the CV joints. one felt like a rough file on rough metal, I told them to return. the store own (who I had known for years) started to object, said it might "wear-in". I asked him to feel it himself, and that that action will happen every time the wheel makes one revolution, and asked if he would put that in his car. he thought for about 10 seconds and said he will send it back for a replacement.

I do not know what to recommend any more, except to search the internet and try and find any brand that are new, not re-manufactured. Sometimes rockauto has old inventory they found somewhere and are selling them off cheap, I will buy a set, or two, just to have in my personal inventory so I will have them when I need them.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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simon84
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

Quick Update:
I re-installed the catalytic converter.
The exhaust volume is tamed down and my neighbours will be happy. Only thing is, I notice some roughness in acceleration. It seems less peppy as well. I'm thinking part of that is psychological since I feel more speedy when my tail pipe is going BRAAAAP, telling the world that I'm pressing the accelerator.
I was thinking it may help to retard the timing a little bit. But I'm also wondering if the cat is a little clogged, or it just restricts flow and that's life. I did see online that you can clean out the cat by adding lacquer thinner to your gas and driving highway speed for a couple hundred miles. It did not look too dirty inside the cat, but I did not test it for air flow.

Any thoughts on how to improve this??
Thanks
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Petros
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by Petros »

try running on ethenol free gasoline, and verify the timing is set to 10 deg BTDC (check w/ vac advance disabled and line capped, idle at 700 rpm).
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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simon84
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

My idle was around 1100, so I' adjusted that and reset timing. Seemed to run a bit better today.
Doesn't want to idle at first at 700, and needs to warm up a bit first. I guess that's why I had it a bit high.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Petros
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by Petros »

that 1100 idle should only occur when cold. on older cars it is difficult to get it down to factory specified idle because of a worn out carb, minor vac leaks etc. but usually it will idle about 800-900 rpm after warm up. there is a separate adjustment for the cold idle speed on the throttle shaft.

if it is idling around 1100 after warm up than there is something wrong. if you can not adjust it down to about 800 rpm, there may be a vacuum leak somewhere, or the timing is off.

There are several adjustments on the carb that should be done in sequence per the FSM instructions. they are not difficult to get done properly without special tools, but it does take actually reading the service manual and follow the procedure, in order, to get all the adjustments correct. Usually it will start and run properly if there are no vac leaks, and all the linkage adjustments are done properly.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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simon84
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

petros. It has a weber carb. I assume that your advice is for stock carb.
It's running pretty good now.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Petros
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by Petros »

the weber carb should not be idling at 1100 rpm either. As I recall the weber also has a fast idle cam, and a regular idle speed adjustment. It can also suffer a vac leak and idle too fast.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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simon84
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

Yeah, I'm wondering about a vac leak. the RPM's tend wo drift up and down a tiny bit every few seconds.
I've set the idle down and I noticed the throttle assembly was a bit sticky. I sprayed grease on it and seems to be better.
It also still seems to be rough sometimes on acceleration since I put in the cat. I'm still playing with it to try and get it better.

Wondering if the cat is the problem or if it's making other things seem worse? The cross beam I put in runs close to the distributor and wires so I thought I may be getting some arcing from the wires. I put some rubber hose around the places where it's close to see if that helps. Not really.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by Petros »

a cycling idle speed is almost certainly a sign of a vac leak. it may be from a gasket, worn throttle shaft, and any number of mechanical components, not just from a leaky hose. spray puffs of carb cleaner or starter spray at various places around the intake manifold, when the idle speeds up after a short spray on some component or area, you found the source of the leak.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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simon84
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Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

I took a little internet dive into cat problems. Plugged up cat can cause misfire. I think that's what is happening. And it started when I added the cat into the exhaust. Same cat I had on there before with a semi rotten exhaust and a cherry bomb muffler which was working ok. I scavenged an exhaust system that was in real good shape when I got the new trans out of another tercel. The new exhaust had no cat and I added in the cherry bomb muffler. It was just too loud and annoying so I added the cat in there thinking I'll make it quiet and improve emissions. It's quieter but not running so well.
Supposedly lacquer thinner added to your fuel can clean it out, or take it off and use soapy water.
If that doesn't work I'll probably just go to a muffler shop and pay to fix it.

And then I'll look into the vac leak. Thanks for the tips Petros.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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simon84
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Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by simon84 »

I ordered a new cat from rock auto and seemed good for a few minutes. I should have listened to myself when I said I'd just go to a muffler shop and pay. I went to install the new cat myself and was in a rush to get it done. When I was jacking up the car, the rear diff slipped off the floor jack and when the car went down (on its wheels) it slammed me into the cement pretty good and left me with a very sore collarbone. Not sure if it got cracked or what but it's starting to feel better. I've broken the other one (into several pieces) 20 yrs ago and this feels similar but not nearly as bad. A week later and it's feeling a little better. Needless to say, I took the car to a muffler shop and had them put in the cat.

Anyway, I digress,. I went on a road trip to the Kootenays and it misfired under 3k rpm so I just tried to keep the revs up. I met up with Marlinh on the way to give her some parts and we had a good car talk.

So I decided to work my way through a few other things to see if I could fix the misfire. Checked plugs and they seemed fine. replaced the fuel filter and that made no difference. Then I checked the spark plug wires and #3 had a tear near the distributor end. The cross bar I added between the strut towers comes pretty close here and must have pinched it. Replaced the wire and it ran perfectly after that.

The fact that this started when I installed the cat just convinced me that it was an exhaust issue. Just dumb coincidence that it started when put in the cat. I ended up with a new catalytic converter that I probably didn't need but now I don't have to worry about that going on me for a while.

I still have to find that vac leak but I'll save that for another day!
When my shoulder feels better...
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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dlb
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My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Tercel back on the road

Post by dlb »

Holy toledo, that was a white knuckle read. That must have been a terrifying moment. Glad you're not too badly injured but I bet your better half likes tercels even less now!

Also glad you got your misfire sorted out, bummer about the cat though! Isn't it a pain when it seems likely that the recent work you did was the cause but it turns out to be something else.
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