Oil Pump Gasket

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:30 pm

Is it possible to replace the oil pump gasket without fully dropping the oil pan? I've got some oil puking from that general vicinity, so I suspect crankshaft seal or oil pump gasket but haven't gotten all the way in there. Just wondering if it's possible.
Conquistador of the useless.

teranfirbt
Top Notch Member
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:58 am
My tercel:: '86 SR5 4WD, 5AFE, lifted rear, 195/70/14 tires
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by teranfirbt » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:04 pm

Nope, in order to get the pump off you have to remove the oil pan and the pickup.

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:06 am

teranfirbt wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:04 pm
Nope, in order to get the pump off you have to remove the oil pan and the pickup.
That's what I thought. I'm gonna get the timing belt and pulley off today and see if I can see what shape the gasket is in. Luckily, I ain't going anywhere!
Conquistador of the useless.

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:56 pm

Anybody know the location of the "four bracket bolts" referred in the FSM for the removal of the oil pan? Also, what stabilizer are they talking about?
Conquistador of the useless.

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11391
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by Petros » Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 pm

it is really rare that the pan gasket will leak, more likely it is running down to the pan from somewhere else, and than runs around the pan gasket, dripping off of it and making it appear to be coming from the pan. Usually it is not.

most likely cause in the front of the engine is the main seal, which means you have to pull the front pulley, timing belt and lower gear. also inspect the cam seal at the top. once I have seen the oil pump housing itself cracked and leaking, but I suspect that was from someone prying off the front timing belt sprocket and damaged the oil pump housing in the process.

other common oil leaks are the valve cover gasket (particularly the half moon plug at the back of the engine), the oil pressure sender (behind the alternator), the distributor O-ring, and the fuel pump gasket. and rarely, but also the rear main seal.

it is not likely the oil pump gasket will suddenly develop a leak, unless someone had it off recently and perhaps misintalled it.

Remove the oil pan ONLY after you eliminated all other possible sources of the leak. it can be done without removing the engine, but it is a big job and rather troublesome because of the difficult access.

Best way to hunt down a leak is pressure wash the engine on all sides very well, drive it and check several times a day, a flash light helps, to look for fresh oil and track down where it is coming from. when the engine is all dirty and greasy it is almost impossible to fund the souses, clean it all off and than watch for the sources is the best way to find it. Keep in mind, oil will drip down from the sources, so when you see oil, back track it upwards to see if there is oil leaking from above where you see it.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:41 am

Petros wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 pm
it is really rare that the pan gasket will leak, more likely it is running down to the pan from somewhere else, and than runs around the pan gasket, dripping off of it and making it appear to be coming from the pan. Usually it is not.

most likely cause in the front of the engine is the main seal, which means you have to pull the front pulley, timing belt and lower gear. also inspect the cam seal at the top. once I have seen the oil pump housing itself cracked and leaking, but I suspect that was from someone prying off the front timing belt sprocket and damaged the oil pump housing in the process.

other common oil leaks are the valve cover gasket (particularly the half moon plug at the back of the engine), the oil pressure sender (behind the alternator), the distributor O-ring, and the fuel pump gasket. and rarely, but also the rear main seal.

it is not likely the oil pump gasket will suddenly develop a leak, unless someone had it off recently and perhaps misintalled it.

Remove the oil pan ONLY after you eliminated all other possible sources of the leak. it can be done without removing the engine, but it is a big job and rather troublesome because of the difficult access.

Best way to hunt down a leak is pressure wash the engine on all sides very well, drive it and check several times a day, a flash light helps, to look for fresh oil and track down where it is coming from. when the engine is all dirty and greasy it is almost impossible to fund the souses, clean it all off and than watch for the sources is the best way to find it. Keep in mind, oil will drip down from the sources, so when you see oil, back track it upwards to see if there is oil leaking from above where you see it.

good luck.
This is all good to know. A few weeks ago I pulled into work and saw a long oil streak following me. I topped it off and made it home because, ya know, Toyota, but anyway, it looked to me like fresh oil coming from the crank seal/oil pump area. I got the crank pulley, timing belt, and timing gear off yesterday, and pulled the seal. Looked good to me, although I pretty well mangled it removing it, so I'm going to replace it.

I'll be honest, I wasn't looking forward to pulling the pan, so I'm glad to have a reason to give that some more consideration. I'll go investigate further and maybe pull that cam pulley and see what that seal looks like. Thanks for your help.
Conquistador of the useless.

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:53 pm

Petros wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:57 pm
it is really rare that the pan gasket will leak, more likely it is running down to the pan from somewhere else, and than runs around the pan gasket, dripping off of it and making it appear to be coming from the pan. Usually it is not.

most likely cause in the front of the engine is the main seal, which means you have to pull the front pulley, timing belt and lower gear. also inspect the cam seal at the top. once I have seen the oil pump housing itself cracked and leaking, but I suspect that was from someone prying off the front timing belt sprocket and damaged the oil pump housing in the process.

other common oil leaks are the valve cover gasket (particularly the half moon plug at the back of the engine), the oil pressure sender (behind the alternator), the distributor O-ring, and the fuel pump gasket. and rarely, but also the rear main seal.

it is not likely the oil pump gasket will suddenly develop a leak, unless someone had it off recently and perhaps misintalled it.

Remove the oil pan ONLY after you eliminated all other possible sources of the leak. it can be done without removing the engine, but it is a big job and rather troublesome because of the difficult access.

Best way to hunt down a leak is pressure wash the engine on all sides very well, drive it and check several times a day, a flash light helps, to look for fresh oil and track down where it is coming from. when the engine is all dirty and greasy it is almost impossible to fund the souses, clean it all off and than watch for the sources is the best way to find it. Keep in mind, oil will drip down from the sources, so when you see oil, back track it upwards to see if there is oil leaking from above where you see it.

good luck.
So it looks like the cam shaft seal may be the culprit. I tried to remove it with an awl, but no luck. Do I need to remove the bearing cap to get at that seal?
Conquistador of the useless.

jimcrazy
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:33 pm
My tercel:: 1985 4wd 1986fwd 1983 4wd

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by jimcrazy » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:01 pm

i pick up one of these seal pullers,,works great,,drill a couple of 1/16 holes in the seal,,screw the puller in to a hole,, a few slides with the weight and out pops the seal,,its just a small slide hammer puller
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:11 am

jimcrazy wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:01 pm
i pick up one of these seal pullers,,works great,,drill a couple of 1/16 holes in the seal,,screw the puller in to a hole,, a few slides with the weight and out pops the seal,,its just a small slide hammer puller
Pretty cool gizmo ya got there. I ended up just popping the first bearing cap off and it slid right off. Looks like that was the source of the leak, too!
Conquistador of the useless.

User avatar
Mark
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 794
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:49 pm
My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
Location: Victoria, B.C.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by Mark » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:22 am

If it's leaking bad enough to leave a trail down the street, it's probably not the crankshaft/camshaft seals, unless they're completely missing. I'd first suspect the oil pressure sender. It can squirt out oil when the internal seal fails. Should be easy to see (or rule out) when the engine is running.

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11391
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by Petros » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:11 pm

pulling the front cam bearing cap is an easy way to get the seal out. carefully wiggle it out, and the seal stays behind, and you can just lift it out.

torque it down very carefully, the bolts go into the aluminum head. do not over tighten.

front seals, crank or cam, can leak with a drip, or a torrent of oil. seen both.

when you get the timing belt back on, you might run it without the other stuff briefly, and see if you have any oil leaking out under where the front cover is located. do not run it long, you are circulating no coolant. but it is safe to run for a minute or two, to watch for source of the oil leak.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:23 am

Thanks, guys. Parts just came in, so I should have it put back together today or tomorrow. I'll report back with findings.
Conquistador of the useless.

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 pm

Petros wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:11 pm
pulling the front cam bearing cap is an easy way to get the seal out. carefully wiggle it out, and the seal stays behind, and you can just lift it out.

torque it down very carefully, the bolts go into the aluminum head. do not over tighten.

front seals, crank or cam, can leak with a drip, or a torrent of oil. seen both.

when you get the timing belt back on, you might run it without the other stuff briefly, and see if you have any oil leaking out under where the front cover is located. do not run it long, you are circulating no coolant. but it is safe to run for a minute or two, to watch for source of the oil leak.
Looks like it was a combo of cam seal and valve cover. In the FSM when reinstalling the cam seal, it mentions liquid sealant. The guys at the auto parts store weren't really helpful, can you recommend a product? Valve cover gasket was replaced not too long ago, so I'd be surprised if it was bad. Could a bead of some RTV or something similar be used to seal that up fully?
Conquistador of the useless.

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11391
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by Petros » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:50 pm

battmrown wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 pm

Could a bead of some RTV or something similar be used to seal that up fully?

yes, RTV works fine. easy to remove later too.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

battmrown
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:45 pm
My tercel:: '85 SR5. Lifted.

Re: Oil Pump Gasket

Post by battmrown » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:06 pm

Petros wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:50 pm
battmrown wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 pm

Could a bead of some RTV or something similar be used to seal that up fully?

yes, RTV works fine. easy to remove later too.
Would that be okay on the outside of the cam seal too?
IMG_20200408_142752.jpg
This is what I was referencing.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Conquistador of the useless.

Post Reply