No More Moog

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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Yaut
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

No More Moog

Post by Yaut » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:54 pm

I stopped by the local parts store today and was informed that my favorite brand for steering parts, Moog, has marked their inner tie rods for our cars (EV168) for obsolescence and isn't producing them any more. I'm not sure this applies to the longer EV165 Moog tie rods or the outer tie rods but either way it's a bummer. Fortunately my local store had two left.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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Mattel
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My tercel:: 1988 Corolla 4wd Wagon (AKA Corolla All-trac) 5speed, AC, Power Sunroof, Windows, Mirrors, Steering, Locking, Diff Lock, 14" Corolla SX Alloys with Silica Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, 210,000kms
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No More Moog

Post by Mattel » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:21 pm

perhaps, if a bunch of us get together and get in contact with them we could get a final run made by them?
Previous: 83 Tercel SR5 4wd, 84 Tercel SR5 4wd
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms

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AugustusFerdinand
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My tercel:: 1983 Toyota Tercel SR5

Re: No More Moog

Post by AugustusFerdinand » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:26 am

So as I'm in the midst of a 7AGE swap to accompany a lift and overall refreshing of pretty much everything I touch during said lift/swap (new CV axles, bushings, transmission seals, suspension components, etc.) and the majority of my experience comes from high performance road cars, not off road cars, someone want to answer a question for me?

Advantages/disadvantages of picking up the longer inner tie rods for a lifted Terc? For road cars we'll install them (or spacers) to reach lengthened control arms for more steering angle, but I'm not so sure what the need is on a lifted car.
1983 Toyota Tercel SR5 - 7AGE swap in progress

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: No More Moog

Post by Petros » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:13 pm

you should not need longer tie rods, the geometry should be correct for an inch or two of lift on this car. there is plenty of length adjustment in the standard adjustable tie rod. realize there are two lengths common to this car, one is for the power steering (that has a slightly longer rack) and one for the non-power steering. they are not interchangeable, make sure you get the correct ones.

Realize also that raising these cars more than about 1.5" at the suspension will result in accelerated CV joint wear, because of the larger angle. it is better to use a combination of taller tire, and suspension lift to prevent excessive CV angle. Also, too much lift puts the strut travel at near the top of the travel, and it will damage the top seal on the strut when the wheel goes into a hole or drop off when it tops out. so, unless you plan on doing a lot of cutting and welding to change out the suspension to alter the geometry, try to keep the lift at the strut within an inch or so. lower front engine mounts would reduce the angle on the CV joints, but you than lose the benefit of the higher ground clearance you are trying to improve.

There may be other struts you can change out to improve suspension travel, reduce the cv angle, and improve performance, but not sure anyone has looked into it. there is a strut used on the All-Trac wagon, and on the Corolla GTS (FWD model) that is larger dia, with more performance inserts available, and with similar travel, that can be adapted to fit on the TErcel front steering knuckle. you just change out the top hat/upper mount, and either bore out the steering knuckle to fit a 10 mm shank bolt (or use a hat washer that sleeves down the size from 10mm to 8 mm bolt shank). everything else matches, the corolla GTS spring is also stiffer, for the heavier corolla. there have been forum members that have installed this strut with good results, I have a pair I got at the wrecking yard but have not messed with them yet on the Tercel4wd.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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AugustusFerdinand
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My tercel:: 1983 Toyota Tercel SR5

Re: No More Moog

Post by AugustusFerdinand » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:16 am

Thanks for the info. The inner rods come in 5.37" and 6.30" lengths, no reference to which is for manual or power. The only references for power are for the outer rods. So are the 6.30" for the power rack or just longer rods that fit both to correct whatever geometry issues may be there? Or are they different lengths for different sides of the car? I know the front axles have about a 4" difference between length, but one would assume the steering parts would be kept as equal length as possible...

I've got all new components for the lift via the "Abra-Cadaver" parts list, while adapting the parts numbers to just get it all from RockAuto. Since it's a 7AGE swap I have to drop the cross member anyway to clear the hood.
1983 Toyota Tercel SR5 - 7AGE swap in progress

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Yaut
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: No More Moog

Post by Yaut » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:23 pm

I believe the power steering racks use the shorter tie-rods because the rack itself is longer. One of my cars is lifted and uses the shorter ones with no issues with it's power steering rack.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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AugustusFerdinand
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My tercel:: 1983 Toyota Tercel SR5

Re: No More Moog

Post by AugustusFerdinand » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:57 am

Thanks, I'll pick up the short ones then as I have the manual rack.
1983 Toyota Tercel SR5 - 7AGE swap in progress

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: No More Moog

Post by Petros » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:51 pm

the manual rack uses the longer tie rods. the power steering rack uses the shorter ones.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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AugustusFerdinand
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My tercel:: 1983 Toyota Tercel SR5

Re: No More Moog

Post by AugustusFerdinand » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:08 am

I completely read that backwards... Thanks Petros (and Yaut)!
1983 Toyota Tercel SR5 - 7AGE swap in progress

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LowBuckCanuck
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My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: No More Moog

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:40 pm

Petros wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:51 pm
the manual rack uses the longer tie rods. the power steering rack uses the shorter ones.
Screen Shot 2020-04-10 at 2.37.03 PM.png
Now are those the inner tie rods or the outer tie rods? :lol:
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: No More Moog

Post by Petros » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:49 pm

I think the inner ones are the same, it is a rod end and a short threaded shaft. the outer ones are different lengths to accommodate the different size power steering rack and manual steering rack.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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AugustusFerdinand
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My tercel:: 1983 Toyota Tercel SR5

Re: No More Moog

Post by AugustusFerdinand » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:46 pm

The outers are just marked power or not, while the inners are the only ones listed with length.
Inner Tie Rods.png
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1983 Toyota Tercel SR5 - 7AGE swap in progress

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rer233
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Re: No More Moog

Post by rer233 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:56 pm

OK, been reading about different length inner tie rod ends here for a good while. I've ordered and replaced inner ends on our cars for years (decades) and have yet to find one that is the wrong length. The difference in advertised lengths is the overall length is 6.3" and the effective (not counting the part that screws into the rack) length is 5.37". Anybody here ever gotten the wrong length end?
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)

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