Terc #2

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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NWMO
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Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:47 pm

Hey all,

First chance to spend a little time with Terc #2. Turned fine by hand, I went ahead and soaked in a little ATF to help the rings. I changed the oil and after cranking with plugs out to clear most of the ATF, I put the plugs back in and started by just pouring some gas in the top. Started and ran briefly easily. Successfully drained about 5 gallons of old fuel from the tank.

Looking forward to installing the new fuel pump, putting new fuel in, putting the radiator back in and giving it a better test.

Chris
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Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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Yaut
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Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:34 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: Terc #2

Post by Yaut » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:27 am

I bet she'll run good. How many miles are on her? I'm still trying to find a new engine for my Red SR5. I finally got the title back in my name (thank goodness).

P.S. I like your avatar picture. Looks familiar haha.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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NWMO
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Re: Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:36 am

Diarmait,

Great to hear you got the title in your name w/o difficulty. That is my main goal in getting #2 going now, I want to be able to drive it over for the title inspection so I can get it transferred to my name. The odo show 239,000 I believe and everything appears pretty original.

As to an engine, Buddy's UPull has an 86' Nova that may still have the 4a in it, I can't tell by the pic. This car is why I started the other post about a possible bumper swap.

https://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/1Y1SK1944GZ116995

I spoke with a friend briefly at church this weekend who burns the veggie oil in everything and while he loves the cheap fuel, he feels like the diesel engines require more maintenance and work. He indicated if he didn't have the set up for veggie oil, he would be driving gas engines. Soo, that got me thinking more about Keegan's swap and others. My 95' Prizm had a 7AFE in it and I really liked the combination of performance (relatively speaking) and economy. Who knows what I will end up doing?

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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Yaut
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Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:34 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: Terc #2

Post by Yaut » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:09 pm

Cool. It will be neat to see the result. I'd like to do a 4A-C swap just because it's simple.

I have already looked at the Nova in person by the way. The engine had lots of fresh oil all over to top and bottom so I decided to pass on it. I don't want to take the gamble.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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NWMO
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Re: Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:05 pm

Hey all,

A splash of fresh fuel with a new fuel pump and I pumped the last of the old gas out of the line. Hooked it up and it started and responded well. It even pulled forward and back when testing the tranny/clutch. I’ll get the radiator back on it with some coolant and maybe try a little drive. Brake M/C looks empty, but the e-brake seems to work, that’s how I got the Rusty Frog over for the title inspection a few years ago. I will do a quick check on the tranny and rear end gear oil before going far as well.

Chris
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Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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NWMO
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Posts: 795
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 1:08 pm

Re: Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:55 pm

Hello again,

Got the radiator back in, didn’t check the gear oil, but did drive the car around a dozen blocks or so. It’s not wanting to idle, but runs pretty strong and felt ok. I’ve got about a 20 mile drive to my preferred shop for title inspection, I’ll probably look at the brakes and see what I find, no fluid currently. The last time it was tagged was 2008’, so it could be the first real drive in ten yrs or so.

Chris

PS - typical rust on the rockers and trailing arm supports, but the front of the subframe looks real solid.
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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Yaut
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Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:34 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: Terc #2

Post by Yaut » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:49 pm

NWMO,

How's T4 #2 coming along? Were you able to get it inspected for title transfer?
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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NWMO
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Re: Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:28 pm

Diarmait,

Not yet, I did have to move it out of the garage last weekend so we could get my son's 76' Maverick in briefly to replace the master cylinder and bleed the brakes. Typically wouldn't care about being in the garage on that job, but when it's around 20 degrees give or take with a breeze, the garage made the project tolerable.

I have started Terc #2 a few times since the first drive and it is idling pretty nice now and starts easy. No brakes currently, I need to cap the M/C port feeding the rear brakes (if it's that simple) and see if I can get the fronts bled well enough to feel comfortable going down the road. I think the passenger side front is fed through a "splitter" of some type that includes the lines to the rear also. I assume the front and rear stay separate through the splitter, but we'll see. I don't think I want to spend time getting the drums back up to snuff with the brake lines twisted off. Hoping to spend some time trying a custom disc set up by placing rotors on the stock axles (after some machine work) and adding a custom mount to bolt on whatever caliper I land on. I'm tempted to try the stock front calipers on the rear and upgrade the front brakes to the larger, vented rotors and new calipers.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

User avatar
Yaut
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Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:34 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: Terc #2

Post by Yaut » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:42 pm

Chris,

I'd be very interested to see if you can come up with a better brake solution. I am very unimpressed with mine even thought they seem to function as intended. I would assume it would be easy to fit a disc caliper on the rears as along as you can machine or know someone who can machine mounting for it.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Terc #2

Post by Petros » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:59 pm

there have been brake up grades done by others in the archives. easiest up grade is to intall the vented front disk and an MR2 master and booster, everything bolts right up, there is a thread on the topic over in the repair guides section.

rear up grades are more troublesome, you have to fab up special parts, and need to rig a parking brake. for a marginal gain in stopping power. just keep the stock rears in good condition, with the improved front brakes and master, it stops much better and more reliably.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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NWMO
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Re: Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:24 pm

Thanks Peter,

Part of the fun would be in making something work. I would consider a “line lock” for the ebrake and use the freed up console area for cup holders.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

User avatar
Petros
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Posts: 11197
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Terc #2

Post by Petros » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:28 am

actually I think the rear MR2 brakes, the first gen, would be a good match up. it has the same bolt pattern, and the size of the front rotors match that of the Tercel so front to rear brake bias should be close (weight distribution is a bit different, but it should not be too far off). the whole MR2 ebrake on the rear calipers looks like an easy adaptation. I have a set of rear MR2 brakes I got from a wrecking yard some years ago I have been meaning to play with on my project tercel, one of my many "wish list" items for it. I have to make a plat that replaces the drum backing plate, that will mount the calipers in the correct offset for the rotors (that should just fit over the axle end). it does not look to difficult, might even be able to make the adapter plate with a drill press and hack saw.

Let see, wish list below (I will likely run out of money, or out of time to get it all done before I pass away):

Detuned 4age fuel injected 1.6L 16 valve engine
vent, drilled and slotted front rotors with later MR2 master and booster (booster has double diaphragm).
lift controlled from drivers seat with airpump/airshocks (for going through deep water/snow)
rear disk brakes
limited slip rear diff up grade
all polyurethane suspension bushings
Front GTS oversize front struts/springs-rear pathfinder springs (with air lift bags)
full instrument cluster adapted from MR2

front leather seats, custom dash

Custom paint
biggest tires and wheels that can fit without too much body mods
custom aluminum off road front and rear bumbers
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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NWMO
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 1:08 pm

Re: Terc #2

Post by NWMO » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:56 am

Peter,

I look forward to following that build.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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SirFoxx
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Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:42 pm
My tercel:: 1981 Toyota Tercel w/ 7age

Re: Terc #2

Post by SirFoxx » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:03 pm

Petros wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:28 am


Detuned 4age fuel injected 1.6L 16 valve engine
vent, drilled and slotted front rotors with later MR2 master and booster (booster has double diaphragm).
lift controlled from drivers seat with airpump/airshocks (for going through deep water/snow)
rear disk brakes
limited slip rear diff up grade
all polyurethane suspension bushings
Front GTS oversize front struts/springs-rear pathfinder springs (with air lift bags)
full instrument cluster adapted from MR2

front leather seats, custom dash
Why do you want a detune 4age..?
1988 DLX Tercel Wagon w/ weber (RIP)
1985 4wd Tercel SR5 (RIP)
1981 Toyota Tercel

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11197
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Terc #2

Post by Petros » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:18 am

SirFoxx wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:03 pm
Why do you want a detune 4age..?

the factory torque curve is rather peaky, and max power occurs at 7400 rpms, not the best for steep hills, rough roads and deep snow. there are no low rpm, high torque, cams for this engine, the factory ones are the best for that, and that is rather high end compared to a 4afe for example. what I was planning was to get the adjustable cam sprockets and than advance the exhaust, and retard the intake. that has the effect of lowering the rpm where both peak torque, and raise the peak torque amount, and it lowers where peak hp occurs, and tends to flatten the curve out, better suited to off road driving. it should improve the economy some as well. a lower rpm, with a flatter and longer power producing rpm range, likely it could deliver faster low speed acceleration (from say 20 to 50 mph), as compared to a higher rpm, high power engine that has a narrow rpm band with high power output.

likely I will use the factory ECM, thought it would be interesting to experiment with a megasquirt programmable ecm, and optimize it for max fuel economy. not sure that is worth the cost, but it would be a fun experiment.

with getting the most efficient operation at a lower rpm, it should make the engine not just more economical, but should help it last longer since there would be no reason to run the rpms up as high when extra power is needed.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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