Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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MrWrench
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My tercel:: 1985 Tercel SR5. aka Spud
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:27 pm

Got most of the engine reassembled! I unfortunately broke one of the piston rings when rolling them on. I had the oil rings and 2nd rings already installed. Finally opened the top ring packet and the first one I rolled on snapped in half. :(
Thankfully another set was only $13.49 for another set.
I currently have 3 pistons installed and the 4th will go in soon!

I did a little research about dry installation VS wet and was flooded with mixed answers. I have never rebuilt an engine before so I decided to do some extra research. Ended up adding a little marvel mystery oil to the rings, piston skirts and a little engine oil to the cylinder walls. I added a bit of assembly lube to the crank and to each bearings too. It seems to spin pretty freely.

I won't lie, I'm a little nervous, but I am pretty excited to finish this up! Hopefully it will work just fine!

Should I do a traditional 3rd or 4th gear 35-55 fluctuation to seat the rings once the rebuild is done?
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

teranfirbt
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by teranfirbt » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:50 am

My break in method follows the "load it up and seat the rings" school of thought, I've yet to have an issue after two 4A rebuilds (4AFE for my Tercel and a turbo 4AGE in my MR2). The one build I didn't load the rings up properly was the 22RE in my old Celica and it used oil constantly, so one datapoint toward break it in hard. My Tercel never uses oil. My MR2 never uses oil on the street, but I usually have a little loss over a track weekend (1/2 a quart or so).

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:29 am

I kind of figured driving the vehicle hard would be a good way to seat the rings. Hopefully I don't have to do a ton of tuning work right off the bat when I fire it up.

Do you think it's worth adding a break-in oil since it has new bearings, pistons and rings? Or just run regular oil and change it sooner than 3-4k?

Thank you so much!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

teranfirbt
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by teranfirbt » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:25 pm

As long as you loaded up the bearings with assembly lube and coated the cylinders with oil before install you don't need to do anything special for break in.
I run cheap 10-30 conventional for break in with a high quality filter. Change after 500 miles to the same conventional and run 3k miles, then change to your oil of choice and run standard change intervals. I run 0-30 Mobil 1 with Fram ultra filters and go 8k between changes.
On your first change you'll want to drain into a clear, clean container so you can inspect for metal particles.

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Petros
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:19 pm

I do something similar, regular motor oil for 500-600 miles max, change it and the filter out. it is a good time to retorque the head, and adjust the valve clearance. after that it should be good to go.

before you start it for the first time, pull the power wire to the distributor and crank the engine for 30 second to one min to get oil pumped into all of the bearings and into the head. reconnect the wire and than start it. you may need to put a charger on the battery, but it is a good way of making sure there is oil circulating throughout the engine.

years ago when I worked for fully factory backed racing team we had a 980 hp Nissan with a dry sump oil system and an external cog belt driven oil pump. they would slip the belt off and spin the cog by hand until they got oil up in the head oozing out of the rocker arms, than slip the belt back on and start it up.
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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:24 pm

Thank you! I was trying to do some research today for priming the pump but could not find anything. I was going to dig through the manual if I could not find anything on here.

I will most definitely be doing that. I am going to to cut apart the filter too and see if there's any major metal going through the engine.

I definitely coated the bearings and the crank. I did notice that it seemed to ooze out of the side of the bearings when I was spinning it by hand. So hopefully there's plenty left to prevent a totally dry start.

Thank you all so much for your help! I am a little nervous about this, as it is my first engine rebuild.
I got the bottom end of the block bolted in to the transmission and the engine mounts. Going to put the power steering and alternator on tomorrow hopefully. Then the head on Saturday after I clean a little remnant gasket off the surface.

Can't wait to fire this thing up! I'm very nervous and excited!
Thank you all again so much for your help!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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NWMO
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by NWMO » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:51 pm

I used an old oil pump in a bucket and plumbed it to the oil pressure port. I was able to run a drill and confirm oil to the top of the head before starting. I also chose to add an oil pressure gauge.

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:06 am

Well guys, yesterday was the big day.
I finally got it all buttoned up, filled up with fluids and it fired right up! (After leaving the dizzy unhooked for 1 minute-ish to cycle some oil around)

I took it for a 35ish mile test drive. It seems to run great, has a decently quick oil leak around the passenger side of the oil pan. I followed the manual for the torque spec but made another 1/2+ turn or so on them when I got home with a 1/4 ratchet and swivel joint/socket. Hopefully that will stop my leak.

I also believe I'm getting a lot of crankcase pressure. I still don't have the EGR plate finished (I should get a lot made from someone else and sell them on here) and I was getting a lot of oil blowing out of the port behind the PCV. it was showering my windshield because I couldn't put the hood back on because I didn't have anybody to help me line it up and put it on.

Hopefully that EGR plate will help reduce some of the crankcase pressure which should help that, I would assume.
Thank you all so very much for your help! The first test drive of my engine rebuild was a success and hopefully it will last another 245,000+

Thanks again everyone!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:44 am

What excellent news! Another tercel saved.

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:25 pm

Dound the leak! Unfortunately it's not the pan bolts... My pan must have been rusted a little thin and when I cleaned it up, it poked a hole in it.
Think I could get away with cleaning it up and coating a thick layer of RTV or QBond or something of the like?

Would really hate to pull the engine again. Haha.

Thanks in advance guys!!
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1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

teranfirbt
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by teranfirbt » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:03 pm

This is a job for JB weld! Take out the two bolts around it and get a wire wheel/brush in there, clean off all of the paint down to bare metal. Use Acetone to clean the area until you don't get anything from a clean paper towel (seriously, get it that clean). Make sure that no oil comes out of the hole for a couple of hours (you don't want to contaminate the JB), then clean it once more. Mix up enough JB weld to cover the area and spread a generous layer over the hole and ~1/2" around the hole. Wait for that to cure for 24 hours then prime and paint the rest of the bare metal. Reinstall the two bolts you took out and torque to spec.
This will seal everything up and won't come off like RTV or other sealants.

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:20 pm

Thank you so much! I will do this tomorrow and hope for the best!

Edit: worked perfectly! I won't lie, it's not as pretty of a job as I would like, but it's not leaking!
Now I just have to change out the CV shaft seals and it should be leak free!
Thanks again everyone!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:11 am

Well, it seems my previous post did not go through.
But hopefully this will be the last time I ever have to post into this specific thread.

I did my break-in oil change at around 300 miles. I also retorqued the head.
I cut the oil filter apart (poorly, I'll admit) and I did not find any metal particles in the filter. But there is definitely a gold glitter in the oil and filter. (pictured below)
The oil came out of the drain plug hole clear looking, but definitely showed signs of glitter at the bottom of the drain pan, which was cleaned prior to doing this oil change.

I'm getting mixed results on my research through other forums and websites. Is this normal? Or should I be concerned about it? This car is set to take me on a 2,000+ mile road trip in a couple weeks. So any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone!
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1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

The Professor
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by The Professor » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:25 am

I'd say it's normal for a recently machined/rebuild engine. Check the bottom of the drain pan next oil change.
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