Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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MrWrench
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Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sat May 04, 2019 4:50 pm

Rebuilt head installed, new Weber, removed/blocked off all the vacuum lines except for the vacuum advance. Removed the very plugged catalytic converter.
Now car is using a lot of oil. Smoking like absolute crazy and blowing out through the port behind the PCV and getting everywhere under the hood.

reason for doing head swap was low compression on cylinder 4. It very clearly had a bad exhaust valve. Drove car 1500+ miles and used maybe a quart the whole time prior to doing this. (pan leaks)
It had ZERO smoking issues.

Ran an oil catch can and no change.
Had 130-140's for compression numbers.

Fixed by rebuilding engine. Had stuck rings in every cylinder.
Last edited by MrWrench on Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:07 am, edited 17 times in total.
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber install. Now it's running really, really rich.

Post by MrWrench » Sat May 04, 2019 5:10 pm

Deleted image. Geotag privacy issues. Can't delete this comment. Sorry.
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

teranfirbt
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Re: Fresh Weber install. Now it's running really, really rich.

Post by teranfirbt » Sat May 04, 2019 9:39 pm

What size jets are in the carb?

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber install. Now it's running really, really rich.

Post by MrWrench » Sun May 05, 2019 6:36 am

Whatever the ones that come with the carb kit on eBay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2620915751
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber install. Now it's running really, really rich.

Post by MrWrench » Sun May 05, 2019 1:38 pm

Update. Digging a little deeper and I think it's oil related.
It's got oil weaping from the exhaust like crazy and pooling up and splattering underneath the car where the exhaust ends.

I put a remanned head on. Valve seal issues?
I'm a little over my head right now. Haha.
Thanks everyone in advance!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

xirdneh
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by xirdneh » Mon May 06, 2019 7:26 am

I would be suprized if the head caused oil to leak. Seems unlikely. if blue smoke out exhaust I would check the hose from valve cover to carb air filter housing. Pressure from crankcase could be excessive . Look inside housing, is there signs of oil?
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.

xirdneh
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by xirdneh » Mon May 06, 2019 7:32 am

Your saying oil is in the exhaust pipe and getting to the end of the pipe? Right. Blue smoke yes?
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Mon May 06, 2019 11:39 am

It's a thick white smoke from the exhaust. Maybe a hint or gray. Really heavy and gets worse with higher RPM's.

But yes. There's oil coming from the exhaust flange and tailpipe. Large puddles with a bit of idling and revving. Smells really sweet or rich. Kinda like gas an oil mix I believe.

There no signs of oil in the air filter.

Found oil on the piston heads of cyld 2 and 3
Compression was 130-140 psi on all 4 cylinders

Edit: I should note. The car drive a few miles to the gas station and back. Getting up to operating temp and seeing speeds of 70mph.

It also has an hour+ of idle time in the driveway. Turning it on and off adjusting the carb and doing other misc things.
The oil puddle is really bad. Roughly the size of a volleyball from between the exhaust flange and the manifold.

Edit 2: I should also note. I removed the catalytic converter. It was VERY plugged up. I did not bypassing the EGR system. I just cut the pipe back a bit. Is there any chance there's junk in the EGR system that's coming out through the exhaust or somehow getting into the intake/crankcase?
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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Petros
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Tue May 07, 2019 12:10 am

that compression should not be the problem, it is a bit low from wear but no so much it would cause that much oil consumption. that much oil usually means either 1. rings are shot (but usually you would have lower compression) 2. bad valve guides or valve guide seals. 3. damage piston or cylinder walls. 4. cracked block or cylinder head (I have never seen that on a toyota engine).

only the valve seals would not show up in the compression test. have you done a leak down test?
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Tue May 07, 2019 6:48 am

Petros wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:10 am
2. bad valve guides or valve guide seals. 3. damage piston or cylinder walls. 4. cracked block or cylinder head (I have never seen that on a toyota engine).

only the valve seals would not show up in the compression test. have you done a leak down test?
I am leaning to bad valve guide seals. The guy I purchased the head from said it sat for a while in a garage. Maybe they dried out? Cylinders 1 and 4 are dry. I am going to replace the seals this weekend.
I have not done a leakdown test. I do not have a test kit, I will rent one this weekend and report back with my findings!

Thank you!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Tue May 07, 2019 8:31 pm

Well guys,
I replaced the valve guide seals following Robert Walker's YouTube video on these 3A heads. I followed the manual for the torque. 9 LB-FT.
I was very cautious when installing them to make sure I didn't damage them. I used engine assembly lube for the valves and inside the seals to lubricate them.
New spark plugs, swapped back to my old fuel pump. (with two gaskets. One on each side of the plastic cup / spacer) fresh oil change and Napa filter, again and there was absolutely zero change. It smoked out the garage after 2-3 minutes of running. I drove it about 2 miles down the road and back. It was smoking like crazy the whole time. The smoke was so bad it lingered in the air along my whole trip and back and stayed garage for the 5+ minutes test drive.

I drained the oil as soon as I started this job and left the drain plug out until I finished. The oil was a light gray color and has a very, very strong "gasoline" scent to it. It definitely didn't smell like engine oil. It is Valvoline 10-30. Just conventional oil in a white jug. Had only a few miles and a few hours of driveway idle time.

The only thing remotely "weird" about the whole job was the middle bolt on the left side of the rocker arm was shorter than the rest. That's literally it. I replaced it with one from my old head. Not that it needed it, but the extra bolt was there.

I'm wondering if it is somehow related to the Weber carb? I watched both holes in the carb and it didn't seem to be pouring in too much gas. The fuel pressure regulator is reading 2PSI.

Either way, I feel defeated. I love this car and I have a huge 2,300+ mile road trip planned for it. But it's kicking my behind and I am not sure where to turn next.

I am going to pull the brand new spark plugs out tomorrow and see how the pistons and plugs look.

Is there any other recommendations for things to check? I feel like I'm running in circles here.
Could my new distributor be faulty and not allowing spark? Could the carb be dumping too much gas in the engine some how? Even with a regulator?

Thanks everyone in advance!

Edit: I brought an oil sample to work today and did a glycol test on it. There is no traces of coolant getting in the oil.
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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Petros
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Wed May 08, 2019 5:38 pm

fuel in the oil? a leaky fuel pump can allow fuel into the crank case. possibly too rich mixture is washing fuel down the cylinder walls?

before you replaced the head was the engine smoking like this? if not, than clearly it is related something you changed. systematically review everything you did. it might be worth putting the factory carb back on to see if that is the problem (though frankly, too much fuel usually you get blackish exhaust smoke, not oil smoke).

long shot, it is possible to install the head gasket upside down, that means the oil galley pass through will not line up. pressurized oil getting forced into combustion chamber?
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Wed May 08, 2019 6:09 pm

Yes. Definitely smells like fuel in oil. I did a glycol test and it came up negative so I know it is not coolant.
I assumed the fuel pump was bad. That is one of the reasons why I swapped back to the old fuel pump. But unfortunately nothing changed.
It was not smoking like this beforehand. I had a little bit of smoke on startup (smelled like coolant), but I also had a misfiring issue at idle and low compression (65 PSI) on cylinder 4. Which I blamed on a head gasket/valve issues.

am I just overlooking bad rings? Even with compression numbers in the 140s?

I have most of the vacuum lines removed and cut the harness for the electronic choke on the Weber. Would the carb run without the mess of vacuum lines hooked back up?

The smoke is very much white in color. I am also 100 percent positive the gasket is on correctly. Mostly because the first time I put the head on, I realized I installed the gasket upside down. When I went to pour oil in, it was leaking between the block and head. When I removed the head, I realized my stupidity and waited another few days for another Fel-Pro gasket from Rockauto.

I called the Weber technical support today and left a message. Hopefully I'll talk with their tech support tomorrow to see if it's possibly a carb issue. I can't imagine I have rings that would be this bad, with compression numbers like what I'm getting?

Maybe this Weber carb is just faulty?
Maybe I hooked it up incorrectly?
I plugged the vacuum advance vacuum line from the carb to the lowest port on the distributor.
Plugged the other two ports.
Removed the TVSV and plugged it.
The black two line port in the intake broke. I filled the port with black RTV and put a screw in the hole to double ensure no air is being pulled.
I capped off all the other lines on the left side of the bay that were open. Here is a picture of the setup. Ignore the yellow markings on the cap and cover. Those we're done by my friend and have since been erased.
IMG_20190504_171941.jpg
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1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Thu May 09, 2019 6:24 pm

Was on the phone with Weber tech support this evening.
Had a very helpful conversation with one of their employees.
He helped me set a base line tune for the carb. It's currently still smoking like absolute crazy, even after a 9+ mile drive.
I don't know if I'm still getting any fuel into the crankcase or not. Oil seemed to stay at the same level, but it was also blowing out of the PCV hole (didn't have a PCV in it at the time)

I did another oil change with a new filter. I left it down just about two "crosshatches" on the dipstick so I'll put a few miles of driving in it this weekend and see if anything changes.
I really hope the smoke clears up and I'm in the clear. I'm stressing myself out a lot with this.

Still gotta set timing and probably should adjust valve lash.
It's currently running at whatever felt decent when I was turning the distributor. Haha.
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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NWMO
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by NWMO » Thu May 09, 2019 10:04 pm

I would get the timing set with a light before I tried tuning the carb.

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