13 or 14 wheels

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Jojje_swe
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13 or 14 wheels

Post by Jojje_swe »

I have just bought my first Tercel 4wd. I wonder what wheels size I going to use, orginal 13 or 14?
I understand that with 14 wheels i get higher ground clearance in offroad driving. But how will the handling of the car be on normal roads? Will performans and acceleration be clearly worse?

What are your views on 13 and 14 wheels when driving the car?

Why did not Toyota choose 14 rims as orginal?
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Cannot speak about 14" steel wheels, but 14" aluminum do give an honest better handling feel.
I used Miata Daisy wheels and 185/60R14 to get virtually the same speedo readings as with the OE 175/0 SR13. The new 14"'s were Kumho Solus KR21.
This size also gives no rubbing on sharp turns - again, my goal was better handling and accurate speedo readngs.
As to why Toy used 13" - I'd bet for cost reasons.
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Petros
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by Petros »

welcome to the forum!

you will not change acceleration or ground clearance if you rolling diameter of the tire is the same, with either 13 or 14" wheels. larger dia tires will like end up rubbing in the fender wells on turns or when you hit bumps.

You improve handling greatly by going to 14" alloy wheels, less flexy tire between the rim and the ground, and the stock steel 13" wheels are very flexible (enough to feel the difference between allow and steel stock wheels of the same size).

some have even gone to 15" alloys, but tires get more expensive, and wide low profile tires performance degrades on wet surfaces, even if the handling and braking improves on dry pavement. Where I live the pavement is wet more times than dry, so I stay with 14" allow wheels.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

I recently bought some 175/70 R14 hankook ipikes on 14'' rims. They provide a .5'' lift over 175/70 R13s. I'm happy with them, and they were $55 each.
oldfaithful
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by oldfaithful »

I use 15” Mazda Miata 5 spoke alloys with 185-55-15 same overall height as 175-70-13 original wheels and have no rubbing issues and the car handles and rides so much better.
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by The Professor »

Go with the 14" wheels unless your priorities are ride comfort or inexpensive rubber. Low profile tires do not degrade wet weather performance, but they won't ride as softly and will cost more. Most tire manufacturers are moving away from 13 and 14 inch tires, so with either choice you'll have a shrinking pool of options as time goes on. 15" is the new 13".
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Petros
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by Petros »

The Professor wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:47 am Low profile tires do not degrade wet weather performance,
This is completely incorrect. I am not talking 70 vs 60, but when you go really low profile like a lot of modern "big wheel" tires, very low profile, wet weather performance degrades dramatically and rather frighteningly. I have seen performance tests for skid pad slalom and braking done for both wet and dry roads for various makes and size of tires. the ultra low profile tires performed far above the more normal tires on dry pavement, but their wet road performance was so bad that I have determined never even to consider them. the wide tread surface tends to trap water under it and it floats too easily on a layer of water.

the other problem I have where I live is the rough gravel roads often damage the tire side walls on low profile tires. that happens often enough with more conventional tires (rock pinches the tire side wall against the rim edge and damages the tire so it can not be repaired).

Besides, they cost so much more I am not likely to consider them anyway. But even if I run across some tire/wheel combo at a great price, I likely would not drive on them on a daily basis.
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Jojje_swe
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by Jojje_swe »

Thank you for all the answers and tips!
When buying the car, I received several sets of wheels because there was also a spare parts car included. There were several sets of 13 original but also a set of 14 wheels. In the rim (steel rim) it stood ET39-5 1/2Jx14 H2. The tires are 175-70-14.

What do you think about that? It will be a lite larger rolling diameter than the original.
Anyone driving with the same tire size and rim. Will it scratches? The thing is that there are almost new tires on the 14 rims and all 13 rims are worn out...
An advantage of these 14 wheels I think is that there will be a bit higher ground clearance. But it must not affect handling

If it gets worse with 14 wheel, I will cost new tiers to 13. One other advantage is that 13 wheel fit in the spare wheel box.
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by The Professor »

Petros wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:18 pmI have seen performance tests for skid pad slalom and braking done for both wet and dry roads for various makes and size of tires. the ultra low profile tires performed far above the more normal tires on dry pavement, but their wet road performance was so bad that I have determined never even to consider them.
Links? I'm not saying your wrong, your hypothesis makes sense, re: the wider tire hydroplaning, however that is a function of tire width, not sidewall height. I did a quick Google search and found nothing related to low profile tires negatively affecting wet weather performance.

When I think of "low profile" tires, I'm thinking of XXX/45/XX or less, anything over XXX/55/XX I don't consider to be a performance based tire.

Let me stir this into the pot: A tire with a lot of sidewall has a lot of flex. A flexy tire will have more trouble keeping the contact patch in complete contact with the road surface. Given two tires with the same size contact patch, you will have quicker reaction times, a more consistent size of contact patch, therefore, more potential grip in the wet with a low profile tire than one with a large sidewall.
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by jimcrazy »

i went with 195-70-14,no complaints,very slight rub on the inside when the wheels are cut hard,the bigger tires corrected my speedo it is dead one with my gps
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by jimcrazy »

tires
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Petros
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by Petros »

Jojje_swe wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:06 am ....In the rim (steel rim) it stood ET39-5 1/2Jx14 H2. The tires are 175-70-14.....
If it gets worse with 14 wheel, I will cost new tiers to 13. One other advantage is that 13 wheel fit in the spare wheel box.
go with the 14" wheels and tires you have, you will suffer no detrimental effects at all. likely it could fit in the spare tire well no problem, if not you can just put a 13" wheel and good tire in there, it is only a spare so it will drive fine untily you can replace the 14" tire.

13" tires are a bit less costly, but I have found they are not really worth the small savings. 14" is the way to go with this car for a number of reasons.

I have driven cross country with a number of different Tercel4wd, most had stock size 13" tires, but there are two different tire sizes that came on these cars, a lower profile wider tire on the SR5 models. compared to my GPS, all of the stock size tires had an error on the speedo, from 4 to up to 7 mph different (the '83-84 have different final drive ratios than the years after, that may account for the difference) . On my daily driver with lower profile 14" tires, my speed o is EXACTLY correct to my GPS speed, better than any stock tires and wheels ever. so you may find the small difference in rolling dia of the 14" wheels and tires may actually improve your speedo and odo accuracy.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Petros
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by Petros »

The Professor wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:09 am
Petros wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:18 pmI have seen performance tests for skid pad slalom and braking done for both wet and dry roads for various makes and size of tires..
Links? I'm not saying your wrong, your hypothesis makes sense,
I looked for some links but could not find it. I think it was either on a display at a tire store where I was waiting for new tires to be installed, or more likely, it was in a Road & Track or Car and Driver magazine (may have even been a Consumer Reports mag) I was reading while in there, an extensive tire test chart with wet and dry performance of various tires. It was pretty extensive test, they also compared it on two different sports cars, and two different family sedans (like a Camry and an Accord), and on larger luxury sedans as well. Some tire brands performed a bit better on the different size vehicles then they did on the others, most were decent performers. the very low profile, like the 45 series or lower, were clearly much more superior in all areas on dry pavement, but suffered greatly on wet pavement. You rarely see this kind of tire testing across so many different types, sizes and even different types of cars. It was actually a fascinating tire test, very thorough and complete. Makes me think it may have been Consumer's Reports, they do not accept any advertising.

the problem with the car magnetizes (I have noticed the same thing with backpacking and ski magazines where they "review" gear), is if they rate a tire badly, they can kiss goodby to any advertising revenue from that company again. They need to stay in business, so typically the give broad, generalized descriptions playing up the tires strong points for each one they test, so they can keep them as an advertiser. Not very objective. You will never see a bad right up for a pair of new skis in a ski magazine for example, and I can tell you some are crap, I do not know how they sell any of them (I used to out on a demo day and ski up to 20 different skis the same day one after the other, just to see what they are all like...one simple test is worth a thousand expert opinions).
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Jojje_swe
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Re: 13 or 14 wheels

Post by Jojje_swe »

Thank you, then I will probably choose 14 to drive for a while with to test
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