85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

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Tercel_Life
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon

85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Tercel_Life »

Hey Everyone,
I have a 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon with a 3AC engine and all of a sudden it just won't turn over. It was really weird because the night before I drove it and ran great like usual. But then the next morning I was getting ready to leave for work and it just won't turn over. When it tries it cranks like normal and I've tested and changed a variety of things. First off I tested the battery and even used a newer battery I had and still won't turn over. Then I checked the starter just to be sure I went and had O'Riely test it out and cleaned all corrosion and gunk off of it and the connection wires. Then I figured it must be the distributor so I changed that out and now it seems to be closer to starting but still won't turn over. I tested the ignition coil in the distributor and it is reading normal oms but I'm not exactly sure what the ranges are for the primary and secondary only what it should be on a 4AC engine. I also tested the spark plugs and all have spark. What I'm left with is possibly the starter relay? But honestly, it's kind of out of ideas for the moment. if anyone has any thoughts or ideas it would be most appreciated.
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rer233
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by rer233 »

First of all, welcome to the site- lots of helpful, knowledgeble people here.

Secondly, think there's a bit of a problem with your description- "turns over" and "cranks" are virtually the same in car-speak. I think your situation is that the car turns over but won't "fire" or "catch." If so, there 3 things required for an engine to start- compression, fuel, and spark at the proper time. Have you tried spraying carb cleaner or starting fluid in the carb? Just take the top of the air cleaner off, hold the ckoke flap open, give it a squirt, and try to start it. If it fires (even for a few seconds) you have a fuel supply problem.

As for the distributors, 3AC and 4AC units are virtually identical (provided both have internal coils.) There might be slight differences in the advance curves, but I've run 4AC dizzys in my T-4's for years with no problems.

Good luck- let us know how it works out- and again, welcome!
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)
Tercel_Life
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon

Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Tercel_Life »

Hey rer233,
Thanks for the correction on my car lingo. Your assumption of my description is correct my car won't fire. I have tried spraying starting fluid into the carb and still nothing. It sounds really close to firing but still no go. That's good to know about the 3AC and 4AC readings, so my distributor and ignition coil is good. It seems like I should have found the problem by now. Oh and thank you for welcoming me to the site. I bought my 85 Tercel about a year ago and it has quickly became my favorite car.
xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by xirdneh »

hows the timing belt?
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
Tercel_Life
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon

Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Tercel_Life »

The timing belt looks to be in good condition.
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Petros
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Petros »

welcome to the forum.

first off, I hope your Tercel does NOT TURN OVER,. it is very hard on the paint and body work, I know, I have turned over cars before. It is better that all cars stay right side up, wheels on the roadway, and shinny side up. do not attempt to turn over your Tercel!

Many people use that word to describe the working of the engine, but if your engine actually turned over it cause a lot of damage, and would really be a mess, the engine mounts would be broken, the shift lever sheared off, and the wiring all shredded, so turning over your engine is a very bad idea too.

This only a half joke btw. The point is, using the word "turn over" is very bad way to describe what is happening, presuming you do not mean the two things I note above. the word is not only imprecise, I have heard people who should know better using it to mean different things. it could mean cranking, it could mean starting. I have heard "it turns over but won't start" and "it cranks but won't turn over" I am not being a wise guy (and this improper use of words, even if common, is one of my pet peeves).

We all want to help, but we can not do that unless you describe how it behaves correctly, clearly and accurately, there is nothing we can do for you. I could not even follow what you were trying to describe, can you please try agian? I will be very happy to help, but I am having to guess what you mean on too many of your words.

does the engine crank, but will not start? what else do you know about it's behavior? any recent repairs?
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Tercel_Life
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon

Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Tercel_Life »

Petros wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:43 pm welcome to the forum.

first off, I hope your Tercel does NOT TURN OVER,. it is very hard on the paint and body work, I know, I have turned over cars before. It is better that all cars stay right side up, wheels on the roadway, and shinny side up. do not attempt to turn over your Tercel!

Many people use that word to describe the working of the engine, but if your engine actually turned over it cause a lot of damage, and would really be a mess, the engine mounts would be broken, the shift lever sheared off, and the wiring all shredded, so turning over your engine is a very bad idea too.

This only a half joke btw. The point is, using the word "turn over" is very bad way to describe what is happening, presuming you do not mean the two things I note above. the word is not only imprecise, I have heard people who should know better using it to mean different things. it could mean cranking, it could mean starting. I have heard "it turns over but won't start" and "it cranks but won't turn over" I am not being a wise guy (and this improper use of words, even if common, is one of my pet peeves).

We all want to help, but we can not do that unless you describe how it behaves correctly, clearly and accurately, there is nothing we can do for you. I could not even follow what you were trying to describe, can you please try agian? I will be very happy to help, but I am having to guess what you mean on too many of your words.

does the engine crank, but will not start? what else do you know about it's behavior? any recent repairs?
Thanks for the warm welcome Petros! Yes, my might have done a half turnover and is probably why it doesn't "fire" anymore :). Sorry about the bad language I'm new to engines and using the right verbiage. I've only been working on cars for a couple of years and done small fixes at most. The car currently will crank but not fire or start. I have used starter fluid and it seems to have spark but not enough to fire. I've had the car for almost a year now and the engine was rebuilt and has around 10,000 on it. Other than that the car has been well maintained and has driven really well. This problem was very abrupt and is kind of baffling me right now. I have checked spark plugs and wires, the battery, starter, the distributor and the ignition coil. I also can see fuel getting into the carburetor and can smell it so fuel shouldn't be the problem but what do I know? Is this a better description or should I give it another try?
xirdneh
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by xirdneh »

When you checked the timing belt did you rotate engine crankshaft 360 degrees so you could watch the belt go all the way around and look at the ribs on inside of belt to make sure none are missing? Rotate crank pulley (harmonic balancer) nut by hand with short 19mm socket on thin 3/8 drive ratchet. Before doing this put tranny in neutral and remove car keys.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
Jarf
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Jarf »

I know you feel you should have found the problem by now but your method of diagnosis is to throw parts at it, hoping to find stumble upon the fault.
It is a much wiser choice to work thru a proper diagnostic schedule and identify the actual problems PRIOR to replacing parts.

If the engine cranks well, there would be no reason to suspect battery, starter or starter relay they are obviously all working or it wouldn't be cranking.
I would never change a dizzy unless I KNEW it was bad (failed igniter/coil)

Given the incorrect terminology and the admission of being "new" to cars, I have to wonder:
Did you set the engine to firing TDC#1 before pulling the distributor?
If not, how do you know you got it back into the right spot?

Timing belts have been known to shear teeth, as xirdneh pointed out.
Pull the upper timing cover, verify that all the teeth are present and that the cam spins in unison with the crank
Also verify the tensioner is good and theres no oil/debris in the timing cover area.
If all that is good, then verify that cam and crank timing are correct.

IIRC, T4 dizzy is crank driven, so belt can be missing and you will still show spark at all 4 plugs
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rer233
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by rer233 »

Our dizzys are driven off the back of the camshaft- no belt, no spark. My guess is the spark timing is off.
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)
Jarf
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Jarf »

My bad, must be thinking of the van (4Y). Thanks for the correction, rer

Clearly, I am suffering from CRS.
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rer233
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by rer233 »

CRS- I used to know what the letters stood for....
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)
Tercel_Life
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon

Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Tercel_Life »

xirdneh wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:18 am When you checked the timing belt did you rotate engine crankshaft 360 degrees so you could watch the belt go all the way around and look at the ribs on inside of belt to make sure none are missing? Rotate crank pulley (harmonic balancer) nut by hand with short 19mm socket on thin 3/8 drive ratchet. Before doing this put tranny in neutral and remove car keys.
I did not do the full rotation I will check that after work today.
Tercel_Life
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon

Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Tercel_Life »

Jarf wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:59 am I know you feel you should have found the problem by now but your method of diagnosis is to throw parts at it, hoping to find stumble upon the fault.
It is a much wiser choice to work thru a proper diagnostic schedule and identify the actual problems PRIOR to replacing parts.

If the engine cranks well, there would be no reason to suspect battery, starter or starter relay they are obviously all working or it wouldn't be cranking.
I would never change a dizzy unless I KNEW it was bad (failed igniter/coil)

Given the incorrect terminology and the admission of being "new" to cars, I have to wonder:
Did you set the engine to firing TDC#1 before pulling the distributor?
If not, how do you know you got it back into the right spot?

Timing belts have been known to shear teeth, as xirdneh pointed out.
Pull the upper timing cover, verify that all the teeth are present and that the cam spins in unison with the crank
Also verify the tensioner is good and theres no oil/debris in the timing cover area.
If all that is good, then verify that cam and crank timing are correct.

IIRC, T4 dizzy is crank driven, so belt can be missing and you will still show spark at all 4 plugs
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I only changed out the distributor because when I tested the spark plug 2 and 3 weren't getting spark so I figured something with the distributor must be wrong and I had another so I figured why not. When changing out the distributor I did put the engine firing to the first piston before pulling it out. I will check the timing belt later on today. Thanks for the advice!
Jarf
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Re: 85 Toyota Tercel won't turn over

Post by Jarf »

rer233 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 am CRS- I used to know what the letters stood for....
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