Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

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LowBuckCanuck
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Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

So I came across this add on kijiji, (Canada's far superior craigslist) and unfortunately the person who posted it isn't very good at selling things. Besides the pictures being rubbish, there isn't much in terms of details. My question to the tercel crew is this: What engine is this, and what level of difficulty would be involved in slapping that bad boy in Jenny? She has a (mildly) cracked head unfortunately, so I either need a head or a whole new engine if it's cheap enough.

Link to ad:
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-eng ... 1044581050

It appears to predate the 4a-ge, and succeed the original 8 valve 4a, so what is this 16 valve engine?

This is my first post as well so say hi. :D
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Petros
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by Petros »

it is a 4afe, 16-valve and fuel injected. that is an excellent high torque, good economy, and very reliable engine. It is a great engine to swap in but it will take some work to make ti fit. All the hard points will bolt up, but there is a lot of work to make it fit, a lot changes to the car.

You will need to build a custom exhaust system, or even a header and exhaust (depends on what manifold it has on it), and the distributor is off the end of the cam so it will not fit in the engine engine compartment. You either have to cut a hole in the firewall (if you can weld this is a doable project), to provide clearance, or you convert it to a distributorless ignition system (my perfered choice, but more costly).

You will either have to convert to fuel injection, that would be my choice (which mean you need to install wiring and a high pressure fuel pump and high pressure fuel lines), or you convert this engine to carb. there were some versions of this engine that came with a carb, a 4AF, and there are mainfold and carb kits (very costly unless you can find one on ebay).

I think there is a thread where someone install one of these engines, it is from a '88-94 corolla. That is also a great price for the engine if it is in decent running condition.

may not be worth all the effort, but it can be made to work and you would end up with a better car, more power and better fuel economy as well. OTH you can find an 4ac, and it will bolt right up without any custom parts or modifications.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

OTH you can find an 4ac, and it will bolt right up without any custom parts or modifications. [/quote wrote:
I think I may of found one of these engines from another source that specializes in Japanese cars, the guy says that they have a 4a engine for sale with 120,000 original kms. He also says that if I'm interested I should make an offer. About what is the going price for something like this? (keeping in mind I'm in Canada and everything costs more) Of course I don't want to insult him, but I'm not trying to go broke either. If I could get it cheap enough it would be a great alternative to finding a new head, even if the improvements over the 3a are marginal.

(I'm not entirely sure how to use the quotes by the way)
jimcrazy
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by jimcrazy »

where abouts in Canada are you lowbuck? im in nova scotia and have a half a dozen 3a heads
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

I'm in interior British Columbia Jimcrazy. Shipping would be... costly I assume.
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Petros
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by Petros »

in the states, a good running 4a would be worth $250 to $400. $400 is what the importers would get for them when they still had them instock, kind of rare now, but is still a fair price for a good running engine. I have bought whole 4 cyl engines from pick and pull on a 50 percent off day for $150, but I had to pull it and than install it and drive it before I knew if it was any good. they would take it back but there is a very large amount of work involved with doing that.

there are not many cars that can use that engine so it would not exactly be a hot seller. You also have to watch out how long it has been sitting, over a year sometimes can cause rust build up around the rings, messes up the bore and will be an oil burner. If oil was put down the spark plugs holes before it was put in storage, that would be a good thing.

Does he offer any warranty?
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

I am not sure if he offers a warranty, but it is a possibility being that this is a business for him. I am still waiting on a reply from the man. If I could get it for $400 that would be great! (condition dependant of course)

The engine could be JDM, would there anything different if it is? (more power I hope :D )
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Petros
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by Petros »

there are a lot of possible differences, but none matter. You will have to swap over all the external parts, including the oil pan, flywheel, motor mounts, intake/exhaust manifold and all of the fuel system (i.e. use your Tercel carb and emissions system, there usually are too many differences in the emissions system to try and sort it out). Likely the water pump assembly and the alternator and power steering pump mount. All of it will bolt up no problem (usually, I had to oversize drill one mount because the stud on the block was slightly different location).

while you have the pan off you might check the connecting rod bearings (do one at a time, install the cap exactly the way it came off, torque properly). do not bother checking the main bearings, the connecting rod bearings fail first, if they are good, so are the mains. you might also consider replacing the rear and front main seals, these are troublesome to get to when it is in the car, and they do not cost much. other seals can be done too, but none of the others are hard to reach once the engine is installed.

It is possible to reuse the intake/exhaust gasket, and the head pipe gasket on the exhuasut manifold if they are in good condition, but you should consider ordering those a head since you may need them. You will either need a pan gasket or use form-a-gasket. install the pan carefully, with lots of sealant (even if you use a gasket), redoing the pan gaseket after the engine is in the car is a real PIA.

Good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

You said to use the carburetor from the 3a engine, wouldn't you need to rejet it on account of the extra 100cc?

Or I could do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJTel3Xplcw. :lol:
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Petros
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by Petros »

you could rejet it but I just swapped mine over and it runs fine. sizing the jet affects fuel air ratio, not the volume of air it consumes, the fuel air ratio would be about the same for the same power output in either engine. Most others that installed the 4ac have just swapped it over, did not mess with the stock carb jets. you might miss a bit of peak power since the carb is size limited.

There is a similar but larger carb used on both the old trucks, and the 4ac powered corrolas, that can likely be adapted. but that would take some messing with the jets (and the emissions connections) to get to run properly. I know of one forum member in California who speculated he could install a mildly built 4ac and use the larger truck carb, jet optimized for the engine build, and he could likely still pass the visual inspection for California smog inspection (you are not even allowed to swap out similar engines there). Not likely a state inspector would know the difference on a the outside of a 3a and 4a engine, as well as the two nearly identical carbs (one has larger barrels and throttle plates).

If you go to a weber carb, you can get a jet kit and spend some time experimenting with the jets to optimize it, the weber is fast and easy to swap out jets, they are under a little cover you remove without having to take the carb apart. so it is easy to experiment. or you can go all out with a CO meter, or a dyno and dial it in. Just as well to trial and error each one until you find a good combo of low speed, high speed and air jets. there is lot of good info on the internet about tuning the weber carb.

I have owned and driven several weber equipped Tercel4wd, I am not particularly impressed for the cost. If you can not find a replacement factory carb (and you are not in Calif), it is not a bad option. but it is hard to feel any power benefit over the factory carb if everything is working properly and it is in good tune and condition. the factory carb and system is fairly complex compared to the simple and reliable weber, but I suspect at extreme temps (hot or cold) the factory carb may have an advantage.

I like the factory carb, it has good driveability and economy if everything is working properly. Though overall I would rather have EFI, which would be a big improvement and may be worth the effort, but it is a lot of work. Though I just as soon convert to EFI than spend money on a weber, not that the weber is no good, it is just not a big enough improvement over the factory carb for the money. Of course if you can score a used weber off of ebay or a car swap meet for cheap, and your factory carb was shot with no good replacement was available, it is a good option. Easy enough to make an adapter.

That carb set up in the youtube clip is pretty nice, lots of power, looks rad too. But it is a very costly set up (well over $1000 used), and I doubt there is a manifold set up for the 3a engine, you would have to fabricate one. BTW, there is one old thread with a guy that installed a motorcycle carb set up, four little carbs, to work on the 3a engine. Looks hot. killer set and cheap, he did a good job. the carbs were factory carbs from a Yamaha as I recall, and are available cheap because many people upgrade their bike with larger carbs, so there are lots of these avaialbe. He had to rejet all of them to get good economy and good drivablity, and lots of fabed parts (Linkage, manifold, fuel lines etc).

though frankly, doing any of this on the stock 8 valve engine is kind of a wasted effort (one reason I have stuck with the factory carb). That obsolete head design will not flow a lot of volume, so there is not point in bigger and better carbs. the head design also does not cool evenly so boosting the output will almost certainly result in head gasket failure (which I discovered when I did it). Those small valves will limit power output no matter what else you do until you change the head. If you really want to go for power, you need to swap in a 4age. you will have a lot of options for fuel injection, duel carb sets ups, cams, headers, and other performance parts, you can easily boost power output on the 1.6 4age to 260 hp, and I have seen as much as 400 hp or more (on extreme builds) for this engine. but even a stock first gen 4age will double the HP and improve your fuel economy.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

Thanks for the knowledge petros. Provided I do buy the engine, I may have further questions.
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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by LowBuckCanuck »

The guy finally got back to me. Turns out its a 4afe out of a 1990 corolla. That would be bit more work than I'm currently set up to do unfortunately. Back to searching for a new head I suppose.
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marlinh
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Re: Engine for sale in Winnipeg... swap possible?

Post by marlinh »

If you are looking for a used head, I may have something for you.
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