First issue

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: First issue

Post by ARCHINSTL » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:57 pm

Nothing in FSM or specs at back of FSM on it.
Maybe call a Toy dealer - however, see following from Village Toy parts page (same key used for many purposes):

#13521A KEY(FOR CRANKSHAFT TIMING GEAR); KEY(FOR OIL PUMP DRIVE SPLINE); KEY, CRANKSHAFT(FOR CRANKSHAFT PULLEY SET); KEY, WOODRUFF(FOR CAMSHAFT DRIVE GEAR); KEY, WOODRUFF(FOR PUMP DRIVE SHAFT GEAR); KEY, WOODRUFF(FOR TIMING GEAR)
3A#; AL2#
#9028005010
►►► no size mentioned,

I could find no size, whether at AZ, ADV, O'R, or NAPA. All carry various sizes.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit.
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
Mark Twain

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simon84
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Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: First issue

Post by simon84 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:29 pm

Rock Auto does sell a set of 5 woodruff keys with sizes between 1/2" to 3/4" wide and some different depths and thicknesses.
It's probably one of those.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)

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BaileySims
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My tercel:: 1983 Tercel SR5 4WD
Location: Texas
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Re: First issue

Post by BaileySims » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:50 pm

If you trust them, harbor freight sells a kit with quite a few different sized keys.
WAGON MAFIA.
Blood, sweat and beers.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: First issue

Post by Petros » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:17 pm

the toyota one would be metric. You must have a tight fit with the key, or it will get beat up and likely fail, and it will damage both the front pulley and the grove in the crank before it shears off. You can not have any movement between the key and the adjacent parts (crank and front pully). You can even improve the durability buy puting it in with loc-tite to fill any voids.

When I was about 11 years old I bought a trashed mini bike from a friend of mine for $20. My younger bother and I went about rebuilding the motor and getting a neighbor to weld the cracked frame. When we got it back together, with a few modifications to improve power output (that we learned from the local teen age hot rod "experts" who lived nearby...hay, any one older than you who has turned a wrench sounds like an expert to us), we kept shearing the key between the crank and the flywheel. The heavy flywheel had a big magnet in it for a magneto spark system, when the key sheared it would stop running. It came with an aluminum key, that the parts guy said was so it would shear off and prevent damage to the crank. We sheared off two of the soft keys, and the groove in the crank was getting beat up anyway. They did not cost much but we did not understand why were were shearing them off, I supsect now it had some slope in the groove that allowed enough rotation to just shear the soft metal off. My dad, a home mechanic and a skilled machinist by trade, gave me a piece of mild steel and suggested my brother and I make a key to fit tight in the groove. We used a big file to clean up the buggered up groove in the crank, cleaned up with wet and dry sand paper, and "custom" fit the new steel key to the misshapen (tapered) key way, and would file a bit and kept "test fitting" it until it would go on with some force. we also put loc-tite around it at my dad's suggestion. Never sheared another key again. fit is important.

I think I sold that mini bike to another friend for $60, who promptly ran it without checking the oil and seized it up.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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simon84
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Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: First issue

Post by simon84 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:30 am

That's a great story!
And if it mentioned the dimensions of a tercel crankshaft woodruff key, it would be even better.
But I'll take it as is.
How many of these type of stories end with a seized engine. Probably quite a few!
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: First issue

Post by Petros » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:19 pm

simon84 wrote:That's a great story!..How many of these type of stories end with a seized engine.
yes, quite a few. you might actually find some of them if you search my old posts. In fact I seized an engine just last February on an attempted Tercel cross country rescue...I will have to tell that one another time. I may be writing that misadventure up in the coming weeks, with pictures. But that story is not quite done yet.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Jonymoto
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My tercel:: 1983, DLX 4wd wagon with 4.1 manual gearbox, tow bar). Manual steering. 313,000 kms. Tercel 4WD SR5, 1987, 500,000kms. Other car - 2003 Rav4, AWD, 2l manual, Peugeot 407 Diesel (93,000 miles) in Ireland for use when on holiday there.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: First issue

Post by Jonymoto » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:38 pm

Just to add my 2 cents worth - one of my mates seized up a brand new Stihl chainsaw late last year because he forgot to mix oil with the petrol.
When you lose, don't lose the lesson - The Dalai Lama

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: First issue

Post by Petros » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:51 am

Jonymoto wrote: one of my mates seized up a brand new Stihl chainsaw late last year because he forgot to mix oil with the petrol.

I have done that too, but not so dumb-ass. We have 5 acres of forest and chain saws are a common yard maintenance tool around here. We own a number of them, different sizes, as well as string trimmers and other gasoline powered equipment. Each brand however used a different oil/fuel mix, so we have a lot different fuel cans labelled with their mix ratio, one for each powered tool. Somehow I filled the tank with the wrong one on our biggest chainsaw to cut up a downed tree, it was a very hot day and just about when I was done the saw just cam to a halt. IT would not even rotate, so figured I must have used the wrong mix. Ho well. I guess the mix ratio is sensitive, and somehow they designed the engines to operate with the specified mix or you trash the engine.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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simon84
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Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: First issue

Post by simon84 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:46 pm

Back with an update.
Got the new gear and cut off the old one and got the woodruff key out.

Here it is when I'm starting to pull it off.
Image

I still had to use the almost broken gear puller and hit it with a hammer on either side of the newly made flat face to slowly get it off.
The key is not in good shape but I should be able to figure out the size.

I am wondering about using anti-seize or assembly lube or something when I install the new gear to try and avoid this happening again. I have no experience using such things so would be grateful for advice on this.

I will take some steel wool and do my best to clean up the end of the crankshaft first.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)

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ARCHINSTL
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Posts: 6067
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: First issue

Post by ARCHINSTL » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:43 am

I cleaned up the slight bit of rust on Goldie's shaft with:
1. 600 grit paper
2. Finished with 0000 steel wool, burnishing the shaft to a mirror finish - also used on inside of gear.
The gear slid on as using butter. :D
I did use anti-seize as well on the installation. While it is highly unlikely I will ever need to do another belt or crank seal (I'm too old!) - but ya never know ... :?:
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit.
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
Mark Twain

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Petros
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: First issue

Post by Petros » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:49 pm

if necessary clean any burs off the crank with a fine file, than wet and dry sand paper. I always use anti-seize and even some rust inhibiting compound like LPS, corrosion-X, CRC or something similar. Makes it easier for next time.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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simon84
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:18 pm
Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: First issue

Post by simon84 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Cool. Thanks for the tips.
Yeah, there is a small notch on the crankshaft that I will have to clean up with a file.
I'm hoping I won't have to redo the seal again but will use anti seize.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)

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NWMO
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Re: First issue

Post by NWMO » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:06 am

ARCHINSTL wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:43 am
I cleaned up the slight bit of rust on Goldie's shaft with:
1. 600 grit paper
2. Finished with 0000 steel wool, burnishing the shaft to a mirror finish - also used on inside of gear.
The gear slid on as using butter. :D
I did use anti-seize as well on the installation. While it is highly unlikely I will ever need to do another belt or crank seal (I'm too old!) - but ya never know ... :?:
Tom M.



:D Thanks Tom, I'll appreciate that some day when I'm working on her. Just make sure whoever is settling up your estate has my number and provide a reasonable price on Goldie :lol: . All kidding aside, I got dibs right?? :wink:

Still driving and working on the Rusty Frog, looking forward to a St. Louis trip and a pic of the tercs together. I am in contact with a KC fellow as well and have mentioned trying to get him to follow me down. He has his eye on some KC trails, so that would be fun if we can make it work, I will let you know.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

User avatar
ARCHINSTL
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Posts: 6067
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: First issue

Post by ARCHINSTL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:07 pm

NWMO wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:06 am
:D Thanks Tom, I'll appreciate that some day when I'm working on her. Just make sure whoever is settling up your estate has my number and provide a reasonable price on Goldie :lol: . All kidding aside, I got dibs right?? :wink:
Chris
Uh - Oh... Now I gotta look over my shoulder and get a dusk-to-dawn light for the back yard? Get jumpy every time I hear the bushes rustle? :shock:
Yup.
Tom
T4WD augury?
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit.
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
Mark Twain

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NWMO
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Posts: 255
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 1:08 pm

Re: First issue

Post by NWMO » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:35 pm

No, no,

The Rusty Frog only has 112,000 miles on her, so there's no rush. I figure to get another 5-10 yrs out of her. But you sure take nice care of Goldie, soooo, have your kids keep me in mind :lol: .

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

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