New Member and Vehicle

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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Petros
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by Petros »

there is a reason they are called a "fleece" rather than a lease. the auto makers have done it to themselves, the cars are so costly to make they come up with creative financing to get new cars sold. Mostly to people that can not afford them. So you get the situation like buying a new car on a "fleece" rather than buying tires cash. But of course what happens is you end up with a flood of 3, 4 or 5 year old used cars on the market, suppressing their value. there are only so many people available to buy cars cash. So that makes it that much harder to sell new cars, when you can buy a 3 year old one for a fraction of the cost of a new one. The quest for creative financing continues, factory lease payments are actually lower than conventional used car financing (even though at the end of the term on a loan, you end up owning the car...not true with a "fleece"). Btw this is also the reason most new car financing is from the car maker, it is part of their marketing program to get the new cars sold. This cuts into their profits, and most are on very marginal financially. so when there is an economic down turn, these large employers end up in deep financial trouble...asking the government to have tax payers bail them out.

If everyone paid cash for cars this problem would not happen, car makers would find ways to keep costs under control, and there would not be a flood of used cars on the market. And most people's personal finances would be in better shape as well.

We have not had a car loan in over 20 years (and that one was paid off in 2 years, we still have that car, our 4wd Mazada MPV). We just bought an other car, used but very low miles, with cash for my wife to drive. look guys! NO DEBT!
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
xirdneh
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Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:38 am
My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by xirdneh »

My wife and I drove cheap cars that we fixed ourselves. That allowed us to pay off the important things like house and kids college so we could retire at relatively young ages. The cars we had and still have could be worked on by the average home mechanic. Today's cars are almost impossible to work on, at least for me that's true.
After retirement my wife got a 2010 Camry in 2013, hopefully it will be problem free for a long time cause I might only be able to handle brake pad replacements.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
SnowGoose
Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:54 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 Wagon
Location: Maine

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by SnowGoose »

Petros wrote:there is a reason they are called a "fleece" rather than a lease.
I heard on NPR Marketplace a week or two ago that the average new car loan has topped $500 per month for the first time. Given that most new cars are financed (anyone know the percentage of new cars financed versus bought outright?), and loans now regularly stretch from 5 to 8 years (and most new cars are in fact, pick-up trucks), I guess we didn't collectively learn anything from the recession. What's going to happen when gas goes back up to $4 or more per gallon?

Petros, on that Esteem you had, do you know how the engine died? Did the timing chain snap? I'm about to replace the valve cover gasket and it looks like the upper chain guide (#2) is an easy replacement (and from the limited info on the Suzuki forum, this guide is supposedly an achilles heel in that engine). I could see that guide breaking and the chain rattling then coming loose so I'm going to change it anyway while I have the cover off.
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Petros
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Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by Petros »

The Suzuki engine failed because the number 3 cylinder sucked an exhaust valve and disintegrated. It still cranked but made a terrible crunching noise. When I took the spark plugs out the #3 spark plug electrodes were smash, porcelain tip shattered, and it looked like loose shredded metal down in the the cylinder. The timing chain was fine. I was actually surprised since this is a really good engine, but perhaps about 240k miles was its life limit. If you have to take the head off for other service, it might be prudent to replace the exhaust valves and seals. this can happen on a toytoa engine too, but the parts are a lot less costly.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
SnowGoose
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Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:54 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 Wagon
Location: Maine

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by SnowGoose »

I'm at 104k on this one right now. My valve cover gasket is pissing out oil - going to replace just the spark plugs and what I can easily get at this time. Despite my best fluid-filming efforts and regular OCD hot-water de-salting power washes, I'm betting that - since it's my winter runner in Maine - the rust monster is going to eat my car before the engine implodes.

To get the timing cover off, I've got to remove the oil pan & the transmission mounting member, and one exhaust pipe. The pan and mounting member are my two rustiest parts of the underbody right now - the previous owner did get the front end K-frame recall within the 12 year window, but for some reason they neglected to change that crossmember. I have the crossmember and need to pick up a new oil pan, and I'm sure, from the vibrations, that the engine & transmission mounts on the bottom need replacing too. I also have the AT, which has two rusty oil cooler lines that pass through the radiator, which look like I'll have to custom rig replacements for. So I'm thinking next year's project will be to get to that timing chain guide #1, replace the oil pan, crossmember, mounts, and transmission fluid, cooler lines and tidy up the exhaust mounts, etc. I know that with this car, since parts are hard to come by in this area, and because everything underneath is rust-welded together, that this car will be off the road for some time while she's laid up. Maybe at that time I'll consider the valve-job too if the engine isn't running as smoothly as I like.
SnowGoose
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Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:54 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 Wagon
Location: Maine

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by SnowGoose »

Fast forward almost three years.

Finally got the gold tercel on the road for regular use. It had been sitting for a while until I had time to do some small mechanical work to make it trustworthy on the road. Have put maybe 300 miles on it so far. The gas gelled up from sitting so long, but some B12 and starter fluid and some pressurized air got the carb jets cleaned out. Now she runs pretty decently except for a good intermittent hesitation from the carb that's gotten worse than when I bought the car. Going to replace the clutch soon, get some new tires put on and an alignment, then get a paint job. The gold paint was pretty shitty - all the clearcoat has peeled off. Going to put it back to its 4E1 - Light Topaz Metallic original color.

At 268,300 miles and now with two parts cars, I plan on keeping this on the road as long as I can. Unless/until they stop dumping tons of salt and calcium chloride on Maine roads, there's a slim-to-none chance that it's going to see a winter. Oh well. While it would be nice to drive it in the snow, I may turn one of my parts cars into a winter beater after my 2000 Suzuki Esteem wagon rusts out from underneath. Otherwise the only 4-wheeling it's going to get is when we take it down my sister-in-law's camp road way deep in the woods.

If anyone else is in the Midcoast Maine area, would love to have someone see the car and give me any pointers or things to look out for. I have nothing to compare it against. Never drove or rode in someone else's Tercel Wagon. Just like older mechanically simple wagons that get good gas mileage. Haven't had a car with a carburetor since the 1990s.
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Petros
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Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by Petros »

ha! welcome back.

you might look for a vacuum leak in all those vac lines, also check the intake manifold mounting bolts. a vac leak often causes the hesitation. Usually an easy fix, finding it is the challenge.

Also, the accelerator pump could be another cause of hesitation, each check: look down the throat of the carb with a flash light (air clearer off), hold the choke butter fly open, and rapidly advance the throttle. YOu should see a strong stream of fuel squirting down the throat of the carb.

if it is weak or dribbles, the accelerator pump needs to be replaced. not difficult, you have to pull the top of the carb off. do it carefully, there are lots of tiny parts you can drop or lose in the process.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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garyfish
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Posts: 889
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:22 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Tercel SR5, stock; 1987 T4WD DLX wagon, manual tranny
Location: North Coastal California

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by garyfish »

SnowGoose -- welcome back to the fold... there's a brand-new T4WD owner and Forum member from somewhere in Maine who started a thread a few days ago... only one post so far, but you could try to reach him by clicking on the "Contact" link and sending a Private Message...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13409
1985 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon, 300K
1987 Tercel DLX 4WD wagon, 6-speed manual, 274K -- got this one running Jan. 2015 (had been sitting for 2 years); this has been my daily driver since 2016
SnowGoose
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Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:54 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 Wagon
Location: Maine

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by SnowGoose »

And after a long silence, I am back. I am sorry to see that Tom/ARCHINSTL has passed away. I haven't posted a lot, but I've did a lot of lurking in the early days when I first purchased a T4WD nearly 6 years ago.

I have basically done my best to keep my Gold '85 out of the weather. The last three years I would pull it out, run some gas through it, drive it around the block two or three times, and that's it. The rest of the year I would take the battery out and keep it topped off in my garage (with a google calendar reminder once per month to start charging and a sticky note to stop...still don't own a trickle charger).

Vehicle Update:
In the meantime I got rid of my '00 Suzuki Esteem. Sold it to a local who still drives it year round. Probably the last one of those on the road in Maine. I bought a dirty diesel buyback '15 VW Golfwagen TDI S Manual for a daily driver right before my first and only kid (a boy) was born. While I still cannot bring myself to buy a SUV, I did need to up my game in rural Maine for safety purposes, so the modern design and diesel bloat weight (plus the ability to impress your friends by towing heavy loads with a tiny eurowagon) makes the wife and family feel much better when I'm toting the tot around. I sold my wife's '10 Cobalt that she used for 10 years and about 125,000 miles (it was a "rebuilt" title from 500 miles as they call them in Maine, being an auction crash car), to get her a more modern vehicle and reset the inevitable Maine rust cycle. I went down to an auction in Mass. and bought her another crash car, this one a '19 Kia Niro Plug in Hybrid. That one had about $4,000 in damage, which I fixed myself (front end, so basically I was a plastic mechanic), except for straightening the unibody/frame and painting the replacement front bumper cover (which I had a local body shop do). It is running well after about a year except for a cylinder 3 misfire that could end up requiring a new head (caveat emptor at auctions!) - unfortunately the TSB on that problem came out after I purchased the car. She works 5 miles away and pretty much does all her driving on battery power, which is pretty sweet. I also sold my '09 1500 GMC regular cab work truck after I cracked the front differential case in half (casualty of plowing...it's a long story) - it did get repaired before I sold it. I bought a '11 2500 GMC regular cab work truck in its place. It sits in the driveway unless it's pushing, pulling or carrying something and gets maybe 3,000 miles per year.

I have since joined a shared garage with a 2-post & 4-post lift. No more working in the dirt (I'm 41 years old now)! With the dust settling in our family life, I'm just finding the time to work on the Tercel. I plan on being more active now.

I pulled her out of the tent about two weeks ago. Cleaned up the battery terminals and it started on the first try. Drove her around the block, and all seemed fine. Decided to make a go for it 25 miles to the garage. About 3 miles in things got ugly. She bogged down around 4th gear and started sputtering. Pulled into a restaurant to try to figure things out. I knew the gas was old, and anticipated problems there so I had a can of B12 and starter fluid with me (except I didn't, I left them at home accidentally). Looked things over for about 15 minutes, let it cool down and it started again. Assumed it was a gas issue. Made it another 3 miles (I started heading for back roads) before encountering the same problem. Rinse, repeat. Made it another 3 miles and started smelling smoke as it bogged down again, then lost my brakes, then saw the smoke from the right front wheel area. 2 hours and 9 miles into my voyage, I called AAA and took advantage of my free tow. I had access to a car trailer, but the Tercel had always driven so well, I assumed I would have no issues getting her to the garage. I bet wrong there.

I've had two Saturdays with her so far. A week ago I did an evaluation and made a list of basic repairs that needed to be done and took a look at the brakes. Ended up finding a steering rack boot (right side) that needs replacing. Did a compression test (180+ PSI all four cylinders...car had a new head gasket job before I purchased it). Visual brake check found no obvious issues, but three of the four wheels were hard to hand-turn while on the lift, so I figured it may be time for a fluid change for starters. I didn't have much time so I just took both front sets of banjo bolts out and regreased them and checked the rubber components, plus inspected the front calipers. The rest of the time I was making a list of things to do. Ordered some new spark plugs+wires, cap & rotor, air filter, fuel filter and a universal steering rack boot.

This morning I went down again and did some basic troubleshooting. The vehicle was idling much better after some more B12 had run though the 5-year old gas. The engine would bog down though whenever I touched the brake pedal. I checked the vaccum hoses (they're not original) & check valve going to the booster, and it seems to have a good vacuum going in. I proceeded to check & clean the brake lines (okay), hoses (dirty), bleed screws (plugged), and bleed the old fluid out for the front of system. Did a half-ass solo bleed and parked her for the day (the brakes are marginally better). Going to repeat the process for the rear of the car before doing anything like bench testing the booster/master cylinder. This garage I'm at, I have to have an escape route planned every day - you can't leave the vehicle on the lift unless it's an emergency. Being unprepared is not acceptable excuse. They also have limited parking so keeping the vehicle on site is a privilege you must earn (I've done my time at the garage already) and subject to keeping progress going on said vehicle. So I can't just dive in, I have to tinker and think about my plans for the next visit.

I plan on going down once per week at minimum and continuing to make it roadworthy. I'll keep you all updated (and post pictures), and start making plans and asking questions when I get stumped.

Thanks!
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NWMO
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Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by NWMO »

Sitting is pretty tough on these cars st times, particularly fuel issues. Anything over a couple years, I would likely start with a drain/fill on the fuel tank.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
SnowGoose
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Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:54 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 Wagon
Location: Maine

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by SnowGoose »

I thought about siphoning off the fuel, but decided to keep running it through the vehicle for now while I work on other things. By the time I get through everything that needs to be done, the tank may be empty at this rate.
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NWMO
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Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by NWMO »

There should be a drain plug on the bottom for draining/cleaning the tank.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
SnowGoose
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Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:54 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 Wagon
Location: Maine

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by SnowGoose »

That's helpful. Didn't even look for one. It's more of a "what to do with it" question if I take it out. I don't have any good options for repurposing old gas. When I do finally run the tank down, do you have any suggestions for maintenance? Worth running anything through it, cleaning the tank? My fuel gauge on the dash doesn't move either. I haven't even began thinking about the needs of the fuel system yet after 36 years of use.
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rer233
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:49 pm
My tercel:: Multiple

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by rer233 »

Just a FYI- my '85 & 87 T4's have drain plugs in their (original) tanks accessible thru the round hole in the tank skid pan. I def. would NOT run that crap fuel thru the fuel screen, filter and carb when you don't have to. Maybe you have a replacement tank with no drain??
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)
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rer233
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:49 pm
My tercel:: Multiple

Re: New Member and Vehicle

Post by rer233 »

Oops- didn't see the last posts...
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)
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