Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

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MrWrench
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Fri May 10, 2019 5:34 am

I will set the timing and adjust the valves either this evening or first thing tomorrow.
I drove it to work today. Still seems to be smoking like absolute crazy. I feel like anything that got in the car would have burned off by now. Guess we'll see what happens.
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
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splatterdog
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by splatterdog » Fri May 10, 2019 9:54 am

Is that pic the finished product? PCV valve is not hooked up. An adapter plate in place of the egr makes for a good vacuum source.

I would also put the carb base heat shield back on too. And the shorter air filter element..

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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Fri May 10, 2019 10:51 am

It is how it's currently setup. I have a PCV adapter being made by a guy at work.
Once it is done, I will have the PCV hooked up.

I can drop the shield back on.
Thanks you!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
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1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by BaileySims » Fri May 10, 2019 11:06 am

How does it look under the air filter? I had the breather line setup like that and I had some pretty decent blow by that was throwing oil into the carb. I have an oil catch can setup now though so I don't have to worry about that.
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by splatterdog » Fri May 10, 2019 11:08 am

Hopefully giving the crankcase some negative pressure helps.

One way to tell if the oil is coming from above(valve seals/guides) or below(piston,cyl,rings) is to mark the spark plug when tight, then remove the plug. While holding the plug in it's upright position the oil stain will point in the right direction.

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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Fri May 10, 2019 8:21 pm

as a quick test of the PCV, remove the hose that goes into the airfilter and run it into an plastic oil container (cap with a hole in it about the size of the vent hose). let it blow into it. if it fills with oil, you have way too much blow by. should clear up some of the smoke if it is coming from PCV system.
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sat May 11, 2019 11:34 am

I just checked under the air filter. There's definitely a small amount of oil getting into it. There's also some oil under the hood where the PCV valve is sitting.

Hopefully my EGR plate will be done on Monday and I can slap it on.
I'm assuming that will drop the crankcase pressure?

̶A̶l̶s̶o̶,̶ ̶B̶a̶i̶l̶e̶y̶S̶i̶m̶s̶,̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶u̶p̶.̶ ̶D̶i̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶o̶t̶t̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶?̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶i̶n̶i̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶p̶l̶e̶n̶t̶y̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶r̶o̶o̶m̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶o̶i̶l̶ ̶j̶u̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶g̶o̶u̶t̶.̶ ̶

Thank you all for the help! I greatly appreciate it!

Edit: purchased a cheapo oil catch can. Definitely going to run that between the spot behind the PCV and to the breather port on the air filter.

Hopefully between that and the PCV Valve to the EGR adapter, things will clear up. I put roughly 40 miles on the car this weekend. It definitely loves it's smoke on takeoff. Hasn't slowed down any. Tried driving slowly and hard and there was no change.

Thank you all again so much for your help! If I could buy everyone pizza, I definitely would.
Thanks again everyone!
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1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
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1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Mon May 13, 2019 3:46 pm

that air filter looks about as clean as you can expect. what ever blow by is getting to the carb, that smoking problem is not from the PCV system, or it would be oil soaked.

sometimes if an engine as sat for while the oil rings get gummed up and do not scrap the oil off properly. you might try the Seafoam oil treatment, which usually works to free up gummed up rings.

you can search the forum for what others have found works, but basicly it works like this: You get a high concentration of it in the crank case, run it up and down the street until warm, and even put some down the intake so the piston tops are soaked and let it sit over night. than run again under load, up and down some hills at higher rpm, than change it and put in fresh oil. sometimes it works wonders.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by BaileySims » Mon May 13, 2019 5:29 pm

I was busy the last few days and forgot to take a pic.

I need to read the thread all over again and see what could've happened. It totally skipped my mind that I had a similar situation awhile back.

I don't remember where I posted it here, but one of the wrist pins that hold the piston on the connecting rod had moved a great deal and scored the hell out of the cylinder wall and was burning oil like crazy.

That's where that head came from. Block was bored .40 over and I never found a set of pistons and rings for it so I gave it away to a guy that collects metal. Hopefully that is not the case here though.
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Tue May 14, 2019 12:15 am

I have seen that before, car ran okay, but the wrist pin in the #4 cycl drifted into the cylinder wall and wore large and deep groove in the cylinder wall. seems it should affect the compression as I recall. That should have been obvious on the cylinder walls when he had the head off.

the wrist pins are pressed into the place on the small end of the connecting rod, I have never cared for that but thought it was simple and low risk of malfunction, but not any more. for some reason occasionally the pressed in place wrist pin can get loose and allow it to float around and do damage.

When I worked for Nissan to build the race engines, we would bore out the small end of the connecting rod to install a bronze bushing, and than use nylon "plugs" in each end to keep the wrist pin centered, and made the wrist pin fully floating. it made it more durable because the natural engine cycles kept the pins rotating at about 10 RPM during a race, so it would not strain the same part of the wrist pin as when they are fixed in place. older cars used circlips to center the floating wrist pin, but I have seen those clips fail and than cause a lot of damage.
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'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by NWMO » Tue May 14, 2019 7:06 am

BaileySims wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:29 pm
I was busy the last few days and forgot to take a pic.

I need to read the thread all over again and see what could've happened. It totally skipped my mind that I had a similar situation awhile back.

I don't remember where I posted it here, but one of the wrist pins that hold the piston on the connecting rod had moved a great deal and scored the hell out of the cylinder wall and was burning oil like crazy.

That's where that head came from. Block was bored .40 over and I never found a set of pistons and rings for it so I gave it away to a guy that collects metal. Hopefully that is not the case here though.
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 am

Petros wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:46 pm
that air filter looks about as clean as you can expect. what ever blow by is getting to the carb, that smoking problem is not from the PCV system, or it would be oil soaked.

sometimes if an engine as sat for while the oil rings get gummed up and do not scrap the oil off properly. you might try the Seafoam oil treatment, which usually works to free up gummed up rings.
I did try a Seafoam treatment through the PCV prior to removing the head in the first place. I also did an ATF soak down the cylinder with low compression. I should give it another shot to see what happens. Maybe get a little more aggressive with the seafoam. I've also heard of people running a little ATF to free up sticking rings as well.

My EGR block off plate isn't done just yet. The hole wasn accidentally tapped for a non pipe fitting. Not a huge concern because the guy made it for a little bit of nothing so I won't push him.

I do not suspect anything is wrong with the wrist pins. I could be wrong though. When I removed the cylinder head, the bore of cylinders 2 and 3 looked fantastic. I couldn't feel anything for ring ridge with my finger nail. I did not rotate the whole assembly and clean the carbon off the tops of the middle two pistons.
I will run my cheapo USB bore scope through the engine once I get the EGR plug setup. I decided to park the car until that is finished.
It's thankfully not getting filled with gasoline anymore after the Weber tech support helped me out.

I ordered a catch can from Amazon which came in today. It may not be a huge necessity, but I'll feel better knowing there's something in between it catching the little bit of oil that came up after the 40 or so miles it drove. Especially something that wasn't much more than the price of a pizza.

Baileysims, I noticed you have the spot behind the PCV blocked off. I found in this thread a few days agoviewtopic.php?f=7&t=7537&p=55238&hilit= ... can#p55238 and he had it line up to the port behind the PCV on the valve cover and is just running a breather in place of the PCV.

Is there a reason for doing it one way or another? Or maybe running a catch can to the breather and having the PCV route through the EGR? I was contemplating running a T and having both lines go through the catch can and a T coming out and to the breather port of the carb and another to the EGR.

Thanks again everyone!
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by BaileySims » Tue May 14, 2019 9:36 am

I just ran the PCV line to the can because it was there. Originally was running to the carb where all the oil was going even after many pcv valve changes. I also did have a breather there on that capped off port, all the oil vapor was flying through it and getting everywhere on the valve cover. Not like it helped any taking it off, valve cover is still covered in oil. Haha.
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by Petros » Tue May 14, 2019 5:07 pm

when I had damaged rings that allowed a lot of blow by I set up a temp oil catch can made out of a plastic oil jug, bungeed into the engine compartment to hold it in place. I was having to dump up to a quart a day back into the crank case. solved the oil soaked air filter and saved some oil cost, but it was only a temp measure until I can rebuild it. I had bought one of those inexpensive anodized oil catch cans on-line (nice red color) to install, but never did. It is still sitting on my shelf new in box. someday when I get the fuel injected 4age installed I may put it in just to pretty up the engine compartment, but it should not need it if it is running properly.
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Re: Fresh Weber and head replacement - oil weaping from exhaust?

Post by MrWrench » Sat May 18, 2019 6:39 pm

So,

No offense to the guy I purchased the head from, but I was thinking I might be having issues with the valves seating with the oil smoke.

I ended up just fronting the bill and paid the machine shop to rebuild my old head. They did a valve job, replaced cylinder 4's intake and exhaust valves and resurfaced the head.

I replaced it today with the rebuilt head again and put in the oil catch can on it. Following the Petros method to the T for the gasket replacement. Drilling the coolant holes, torquing the head with a Snap-on digital torque wrench and whatnot. I made sure the head was free of any old gasket materials

After a little bit of messing with the timing and getting everything set. I went for a test drive of maybe 2-3 miles and it absolutely covered my entire engine bay with oil. It's pouring straight through the oil catch can through the breather hole on the carbs filter base plate. I had oil literally EVERYWHERE under the hood.
Thankfully I wasn't running the air filter.

I still haven't gotten my EGR adapter yet.

Am I just looking at a bad bottom end???
Too much blow-by or not enough negative crankcase pressure from no EGR adapter plate to the PCV?

Its almost like it's got an oil line to each Piston. Every exhaust port valve is dirty as crap and oily on the old head that has maybe 40 miles on it in total.
The intake / exhaust gasket was pretty oily as well.

I am losing my mind a little bit here. Am I just overlooking a bad bottom end? I know I'm an Idiot with money and proper diagnosing apparently. :(

I wasn't using hardly any oil the previous 1500+ miles I drove it with. I drove it 800+ miles home from Connecticut with zero issues or smoke. + Another 700 roughly after I got it home.

I wasn't having any smoking until just before I did the head swap.
It was definitely coolant smelling smoke. Cylinder 4 was pretty clean on top of the piston when I pulled it. Was the cat just somehow hiding the smoke? How am I getting oil in the combustion chamber now and wasn't before? Am I just an idiot?
1991 Toyota Celsior RHD
1988 Volvo 780 Bertone
1980 Volvo 262 Bertone - E85 SBC project
1985 Toyota Tercel SR5. Aka "Spud"

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