oil pump

[shogun]

well, one of my friends races spec cars and he uses n2 toyota 4ag engines, he gave me one of his oil pumps he says the housing of the pump is from a 20v engine and the gears are trd i dont know if it can fit the 3a engine, hope it does if not ill have to install in my original housing

here are some pics tell me what you think

[Mac]

heres pictures of the oil pump out of my 1983 3A-C

looks like your only "problem" will be the timing belt cover not fitting perfectly anymore.






(yeah, parents thought oil changes were DE DEVIL! )

[GTSSportCoupe]

Amazing how similar those are. Hey shogun, if you want a pic of a regular 4age large port one too, I've got one kicking around. Probably looks exactly the same as the ones above. Uses hex screw though I think. Looks like that pump should fit ok on your 3A

[Typrus]

Well, the Toga High-Volume pump part no's for the 3AC are the same as the 4AGE.
What you really should do is check for differences in opening sizes. Oil outlet, inlet, etc.

[shogun]

anywere special you want me to meassure????

also the pump was a bargain 45 dollars


note oil pick up is 14.52 mm

outlet is 12.4mm

[Typrus]

Ok.
I can get my shiny new HP Oil pump "upgrade" for an extra $50. lol. Yay ipp.net.

I'll go measure my 3AC one if I remember and let you know.

[Typrus]

13mm out, 15mm in as far as my cheesy measurements could say. You probably have much more accurate measuring devices than me regardless. As such, I'd say they are probably the same. Which is odd, because the 20v revs to over 8k with no problems, oil-wise. Maybe internal gearing and pressure regulation?

[Mac]

I think the tercel came with an overkill oiling system from the factory. but their may be differances behind the cover (one held on by the philips screws) that houses the gears for pumping oil.

if you want an upgraded oiling system mabey an AE-101 block is the way to go? toyota probably tweaked it over the years, and those blocks can take the 15,000RPM required to make 250HP for formula atlantic cars.

they also have oil cooled pistons and a stronger 4-rib block casting. the 3A is one of, if not the weakest A-seres engine block as it only has 2 ribs cast into it.

[Typrus]

Shhhh.... Don't let my common sense hear you say that!

I know. I just want (stupidly perhaps) to see how long the 3AC will survive at higher output. Carefully done, of course. If my block goes ker-squish, then I'll go get a 5-rib or 7-rib or whatever-the-hell rib came later with 4AC head and use whatever I can from the 3AC build. Which would likely amount to carb, oil pump (hopefully), ignition system, and exhaust header.

Heres encouragement. We did a baby-blueprint to my block. The mains are all perfectly in-line with each other. Couldn't slip any feeler gauge under any of them and the straight-edge. So from that stand-point, shes ready for high revs. Deck is also flat side-side, front-back, and corner-corner. All measured several times in as many places as possible. All oil galleries are clean and shiny. No flashing exists in the block.

I'm considering trying to fund a 4 or 5-stage dry-sump. In the case of 5, hook up 2 sumps to the head, on either drain-back hole, and 2 in the pan, last being pressure of course. In the case of 4-stage, somehow mate the 2 drain-backs in the head and suck on that with 2 in the pan and one pressure, or one in the pan and both heads pulled. Seems kind of silly that way though...
Then run a powerful vacuum pump in the crank. Less air pressure=less crank resistance=faster revs.
Yar.

[shogun]

when i had the 3asu with a 48 ida carb it revved like mad, sometimes it even saw 8000 rpms, and took it like a champ, dunno if its the same block as the 3ac, but my block plans are to balance the rotating assembly, and then hope for the best, supercharged boost

[takza]

Then run a powerful vacuum pump in the crank. Less air pressure=less crank resistance=faster revs.
Yar.

I'm still thinking of using manifold vacuum and the PCV system to get a partial vac in the crankcase...but worried about crank and cam seals not getting enough oil. One guy claims a 10% gain in mpg doing this.

[Typrus]

Problem though. With a standard oil pump, the positive pressure in the crankcase acts to help push the oil into the pickup tube. With a vacuum, there will be a pull on the oil from the pickup tube. These pumps work pretty well pushing oil but aren't the absolute best at pulling, so I understand.

Though I could see how an improvement could be had. Bigger the rotating mass and the higher RPM's you want, the more gain you can expect.

[Mac]

mabey just remove the PCV valve and use a catch can. that would allow for easier breathing.

[Typrus]

See if you can crack the cover off there shogun. Here's a 3AC-
Brought it to my instructors. They say its a beautiful piece of engineering. Way more than the engine needs. Only one thing wrong with it after 180-ish thousand miles. Theres a tiny, tiny, tiny score in the housing cover. Likely from about the time the thing was run near dry. They said its nowhere near scrap-worthy. I made it clear the only reason I was getting rid of it was that I was getting something better. They advised I hang onto it.

Oh yeah, and in his 30+ years of being a Tech, my ex-Toyota instructor said he has yet to see one of the gear-and-crescent style pumps go bad. And he used to do all kinds of racing. He is absolutely in love with the 2 and 3TC engines, and the 18R-G. "Yeah, its got a Hemi!"

23 teeth on the inner gear
28 on the outer







You thought your pump was bad.... This one sat in the solvent tank for 2 hours, was nylon-brushed everywhere, then bronze-brushed on the clean parts. Just to show what that poor thing went through under the tyranny of my sis. Lol.

[shogun]

ill crack open the pump and se what is inside