Subie and Toyota Join Hands!

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:21 pm

WOO-HOO!
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory ... /story.htm

http://www.gizmag.com/go/6235/

Finally! A diesel Subie, supported by Toy none-the-less!

Toyota is very powerful... But I didn't realize they kick-started Daihatsu and Hino... Sweet. We'll see if maybe the partnership goes so far as to see Toyota's with Boxer's.... Awesome thought.... Especially that of a 6-cyl Boxer MR2..... (drool)

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:48 pm

A diesel Subaru? Awesome!

I knew Toyota bought GM's share of Subaru, but I didn't really expect any changes in the cars.

Is that some kind of soot trap after the turbo?

takza · Post by **takza** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:23 am

I think the newer diesels are required to reduce particulates?

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:46 pm

I'd guess its a Diesel System Particulate Filtration Device. They are essentially required as of 2007 accompanying the Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel... Man, without the Sulfer our injection pumps and injectors are going to suffer... Sulfer is slippery stuff. I hope they will start using at least B2 to supplement for lost lubricity nation-wide.

Did you know there is a gentleman in Colorado who has figured out a way to produce Biodiesel from Algae? In 1 acre he can yield 100x the output of 1 acre of soybean plants. There is hope for BD after all!

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:58 pm

algee biodiesel? sounds interesting, I hope the guys findings are put into practice.

I see your point about sulphur, but that crap is really nasty to our enviroment, I'm glad to see that it will be lowered, Injectors and pumps can be replaced, enviroment not so much.

Honestly, if fuel prices were the cost they are because the fuel was highly refined and better for the enviroment(ie no sulphur in the fuel), i would have no complaints about rhe cost. But as it stands, more then 50% of the cost of fuel goes to government slush funds which do no good for the enviroment.

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:54 am

Wikipedia wrote:Sulfur is not a lubricant, however the process used to reduce the Sulfur also reduces the fuel's lubricating properties. Lubricity is a measure of the fuel's ability to lubricate and protect the various parts of the engine's fuel injection system from wear. The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricity agents in diesel fuel. To manage this change the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels and this standard went into effect January 1, 2005. [3]

There may also be a minor decrease in the energy content, by about 1%. This decrease in energy content may result in reduced fuel economy. To achieve the sulfur requirements for the new fuel standards, diesel manufacturers include an additive to keep the fuel flowing smoothly, and to prevent engine damage. A relatively cheap lubricious additive is biodiesel.

In other countries they have made biodiesel a required part of ULSD as a lubricant. I think it's 5% in France. I think some states in the US are adopting similar policies too.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:13 am

Well, wasting $1500+ on parts with 2-3x the frequency is no good either.
The nice thing about the Algae approach is that they still consume CO2 and emit Oxygen in the process. And its one of, if not the, fastest growing plant life on Earth. Very quick turnaround for harvest.

Apparently, over 50% of algae is oil when the algae is dried. The oil is suitable for BioDiesel production via transesterification. This is a good thing.

You know, I wouldn't mind a temporary 30 cent hike to fund new refineries. The old refineries are inefficient 30+ year old technology. If they could be redone with modern technology and much higher efficiency, then the usable product per barrel may well increase substantially, decreasing production cost and thereby, eventually, fuel cost.
Consider that over a million gallons are consumed daily. At a million gallons, 40 cents per, thats roughly $400,000. So, say it takes 1 billion to build a new refinery. At 400,000 a day, that comes out to roughly 2500 days, or almost 7 years to pay it off. Yeah, that may be expensive, but consider this- If we are at, say 65% efficiency (not actual figure, don't quote me on it) and input a 55 gallon drum, you'll get roughly... 35.75 gallons of usuable material out of it. At a figure of $50 a barrel, you are wasting 35%, so only $32.5 of it is more or less in use. If the new refinery were created, and efficiency went up to, say, 80%, then 44 of the 55 gallons is in use, introducing an additional 8.25 gallons of product. The return from the 55 gallon drum increases substatially, depending on the petroleum product created from the additional material.

If, say, from that extra 8.25 gallons, we made gasoline. At $3.10/gallon, you bring in 27.575 extra. Considering that 8.25 is 15% of a 55 gallon drum, representing 7.5 of the $50, the return is a little over $20 extra for those extra units.
Now I relaize I'm not taking into account shipping, processing (by individual companies, not refineries) and the likes, but its still a good idea.

So this is all done on a figure of 1 million gallons a day. According to http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html
The daily IMPORT of crude is roughly 13,714,000 BARRELS A DAY! A barrel of crude constitutes 42 gallons.

So, on a daily basis, we IMPORT over 575,988,000 gallons of crude. Thats not even taking into account Alaska, Texas, Colorado, etc oil.

Using my 65% efficiency figure from earlier, out of 575,988,000 gallons, 374,392,200 gallons are used. To attain 80% efficiency, we see 460,790,400gallons used. Thats a difference of 86,398,200 gallons. Thats a God-aweful huge amount of petroleum product. So, with that 40 cent increase to pay for the refinery, if you could think the price would drop, say, 25 cents due to efficiency, the increase is only seen at 15 cents a gallon. I'd say thats livable.

But what about alternative fuel options? Supplement in 10% of daily diesel use with American-made BioDiesel product... 4.1 million barrels of diesel are used daily according to http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01 ... um_co.html and at 42 gallons a barrel, thats 172,200,000 gallons of diesel a day. 10% of this is 17,220,000 gallons. That much of the cost of the diesel fuel remains in the US economy. Lets say that diesel is $3.10/gallon, and biodiesel is $3.10/gallon for straight B100. At 17,220,000 gallons, thats $53,382,000 that is here for good. Again, crappy calculation, but imagine an extra 53 million a day that stays here. I know that compared to the daily flow out of $$$ that is probably not a whole lot, but think of it. That would put money into farming, encourage increase in cropland which would help to offset emissions, the money stays here. Its 53 million feeding Colorado farmers. Its 53 million feeding the Nebraskans. Its 53 million potentially going towards something like education or welfare.

I guess I should look at it from the cost per barrel standpoint. $72/42 gallons today= $1.714/gallon. 1.714*17,220,000 gallons= $29,515,080. Not quite 53, but 29.5 is still quite substantial.

I kind of let myself run away on the issue. lol. Oh well.

I think people need to take theirs eyes off of Ethanol. Its harder to produce and requires special conversion to run higher than roughly 15%. You get significantly worse mileage, and risk serious componant degradation if the conversion isn't done perfectly.
BioDiesel? You can make it from used fryer oil in your garage for God's sake. Conversion? Is your car post-1996? Don't worry about it. Pre-1996? Just replace your fuel hoses and Injection pump seals with Viton or other approved synthetic rubber material. Nothing major. Most pre-96 vehicles need new fuel lines anyway. That aside, no conversion is needed.
BioDiesel has significantly lower emissions in everything but Oxides of Nitrogen, but they have made major headway on that issue. You take a very small economy difference, but not the 20+% seen with Ethanol. Lubricity of the fuel is significantly higher, thereby extending life of such componants as the Injection pump and Fuel Injectors. Biodiesel acts as a solventing agent, breaking down varnishes and deposits in the fuel system. With biodiesel, EGT's drop and the engine usually runs much quieter.

What the heck is there to lose with it?