Just bought a 1987 Tercel DLX 4WD....a little help please???

SHOCK79 · Post by **SHOCK79** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:16 pm

Hello to all, this is a great site..... I just purchased a 1987 Tercel DLX 4WD Automatic for $250. I know very little about vehicles, so I may have jumped the gun a little with this purchase, even for so little money. After closer inspection of the engine, I found there to be no air filter installed (a little worrysome, how long has it been removed??) Also problem number two happened when trying to install new plugs. The plug farthest from the front will not thread in all the way and it seems to be angled slightly downwards. It was hard to remove in the first place, and I inspected the treads and they are definatley squared off, especially at the top of them.
The firing sequence seems to boggle me also. The way it is hooked up seems wrong, however it does run. Again, I am a total rookie and figuered this to be a good project car. Is the first cylinder the frontmost or the rearmost. I enlisted the services of the local Autozone and even the guy was confused. Their diagram seems misleading...which is the front??

http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?Us ... ring+Order

Firing order 1-3-4-2 ---
front | 1 |
of | 2 |
| 3 |
distributor rotates counter vehicle | 4 |
clockwise

On mine the 1st wire off of the dist goes to the frontmost cylinder
The 2nd wire goes to the 2nd frontmost
The 3rd wire goes to the 3rd from the front
The 4th goes to the one at the rear.

Sorry for the long post on the first post of my many, many, posts enlisting help, I hope all will understand.....

I have wanted one of these (really wanted an SR5, but they are hard to come by) for a while now and was looking all over the country and this seemed like such a steal, but I am getting worried about it. Especially if I need a new engine or head because of the plug issue.....

Thank you to whoever posts...

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:02 pm

The head plugs are stripped. How far down? If its bad enough a Heli-Coil might be needed.... Or just a whole new head. A guy on e-Bay was selling them for something like $120...

I'll put more 2cents in later, I have to jet though atm.

SHOCK79 · Post by **SHOCK79** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:06 pm

It looks as though it will need to be helio-coiled I believe

dcn · Post by **dcn** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:24 pm

Welcome to the forum, I remember being excited when I found it too, thre're a lot of good people here, you've found a helpful guy in Typrus..

Congrats on getting a Terc! Soon, hopefully, you'll realise what a great car you've got and will fall in love like we all did. Anyone that ever tried to bug me about my sled gave up long ago cause they realised I was too proud of it to let it bother me. Plus I'd just hit them with the good old 'show me your car at 400,000Km +' and they'd see it my way..

Mickey_D · Post by **Mickey_D** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:58 pm

Welcome Shock!!

Heh, DCN. I get ribbed (well, used to) all the time at work about my little rust bucket. Until I relentlessly reminded all the rednecks I work with that I paid $100 for it 18 months ago and all I've done to it was steal my wife's tires. And two weeks ago I got a free oil change from Walmart when I replaced said tires.

The ribbing COMPLETELY stopped when I was taking a furnace outside at work on the forklift and got it stuck. Went inside to get my coat and informed my supervisor that the forklift was stuck (again). He wandered off to find someone to drive the other forklift to get me out.

In the time it took him to get one of the paint booth guys out there, I had already pulled said 9,000 pound forklift out of its den of inequity with my Terc and a Stretch-n-Snatch tow strap!!

Painter dude went running back inside to get everyone to come out and look as he couldn't believe it! Nobody else could either. I had to re-hook the Terc up and pull the forklift a couple feet before anyone would believe him!!

I then reminded them that it only cost me $100 and nothing's broken on it in 18 months and it's 195,000 miles old.....

Heard a couple grumbles from diehard Ford/Chevy fans about finding "one of those Japmobiles for myself"!! :p

Mickey_D · Post by **Mickey_D** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:05 pm

Oh, and as for your questions:

Shouldn't be too much of a problem as to the missing air filter, so long as the inside of the filter housing isn't gummed up with dirt and leaves. As long as it's still fairly clean in there, it means nothing too bad's gotten down into the engine internals. Just whack a filet in there, wipe up any gunk, and run with it.

As to the plugs: Yes, the front is #1. And if someone has crossthreaded a spark plug hole, it'll either need Heli-coiled or the head replaced.

SHOCK79 · Post by **SHOCK79** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:13 pm

In order to helicoil, the head has to be off correct.... I don't want any shavings endering my block. I have helicoiled plenty of things from working in the bike industry, but never anything like this..... My buddy and I got the plug to go in, however it does't seem to want to go all the way, she still fires though,

Also when it is running in neutral it idle's fine, my timing light says around 830, when i put it in drive, the idle drops significantly and it will stall out.

I am beginning to think that I made a big mistake, I thought $250 was a good deal, but then I see someone payed $100 and it works.

How much is it (estimate) to get an engine replaced, I have located some used 3AC's for about $350 to $400, but I am not sure if I can do it myself...

Starfire · Post by **Starfire** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:33 pm

If you look around you should be able to find a 4AC for free (at least they are just about a giveaway item here in Australia).

Externally they are basically identical to the 3AC but have a slightly larger displacement (1.6 vs 1.5) and are a lot more common.

Provided you have a way of lifting it and some basic hand tools it really isnt too hard to swap an engine yourself. Anything you unbolt from one you bolt on to the other.

The workshop manual for an 85 can be downloaded from this site and has the basic procedure outlined.

Cheers,
Terry

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:58 pm

Mac Tools has a thread chaser that goes into the block, expands, engages the good threads at the bottom, then taps through to the top, ensuring proper threading angle and such... Also pushes the shavings up out the top.

Straight from their parts magazine

Expandable Spark Plug Rethreads
Mac Tools is proud to offer the Back-Tap for spark plug hole thread repair. The Back-Tap Reverse Rethreader eliminates cross threading during a spark plug port repair job. No More Heli-Coiling! Its patented design allows it to slip down inside the spark plug port past the damaged threads. Then, it expands, engages the undamaged threads and begins chasing threads from the bottom up. All filings and debris come up out instead of falling inside the chamber. The Back-Tap will not let you cross the good threads up.

Mac Tools Part No.
10mm SPKTHR10
12mm SPKTHR12
18mm SPKTHR18

3-Pc Set contains; SPKTHR10, SPKTHR12, SPKTHR14= SPKTHR03

If you do replace the head, it might be a good idea to use the 4AC head. I toyed with this idea some time ago, and it appealed for the reason that the 4AC is around 100cc's bigger, therefore the ports are slightly larger and the cam has different, more impressive properties, ie lift, duration, soon. I'm not entirely sure the potential increase, but it might be a nice bit.

The issue that might exist is that someone tried to chase the threads, but jacked the angle up.

So it sputters and dies when the drive is engaged? Well... Could be a few things. I've found our engines idle very nicely minus a cylinder or 2. Put load on them and they croak though. So its possible that the way the plug is in it isn't firing quite right? Perhaps you are idling too low? By 830 you mean its idling at 830? I think the Auto's are supposed to idle closer to 950? I might be mistaken.

Might I recommend downloading the Factory Service Manual? http://www.tercel4wd.com
is the place to grab it.

Not too many of us have Auto's, but believe me... Terceldude will love you for it. Heh.

kingtercel · Post by **kingtercel** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:01 pm

Shock dont dought that price, its definately a goer , by my standards anyway; i got coerced (by excitement) into buying an 87 dlx at nigth time, not running, he claimd batery fault, but 1000$ later i found it was a warped haed and blown radiator+pump,
but the more work u do on the terk the less parts that can go in the future and the more experience u gain

Im still wondering whether the 3800$ i paid for a rusty 1966 Vw bus (heaps of parts) was worth it - but then i realise wen finished, is going to be a masterpiece well worth the efffort/cash

20vtercel · Post by **20vtercel** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:01 am

The plug farthest from the front will not thread in all the way and it seems to be angled slightly downwards.

Get a thread chaser. THey are cheap and can buy them anywhere that sells auto parts or basic tools. most chasers are "one size" as they are tapped for the plugs that require 5/8" on one end and 13/16" on the other with a wrench head in the middle.

Mac tools are very good but they are very expensive.

There is no reason to replace the head unless by some odd chance, the sparkplug being cross threaded either chewed so much meat out of the head that you a) cannot retap it with a chaser b) cannot drill and heli-coil the threads and c) cracked the head.

My $0.02, I have NEVER replaced a head on the countless engines i work on due to a stripped plug. There is always a way and usually a chaser fixes the problem 99.9999999999% of the time.

SHOCK79 · Post by **SHOCK79** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:01 pm

The 4Ac engine upgrade seems like a great idea..but I am still a little worried about the amount of work (I know I am a wuss) I just have such little knowledge on engines. Give me a bicycle and that is another story. All nuts and bolts I guess. I downloaded the Tercel manual, and I didn't exactley see where it said what the idle should be. On the hood in order to do the timing it says 950 max rpm.

One more thing that I have noticed, with starting I have be super heavy on the gas in order to get it to turn over.

Thanks to all....

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:38 pm

Heavy on the gas? As in, pump it several times to get it to fire?

You might be looking at a carb rebuild.... Paid $260 to get mine done. Did a good job, but my carb is still tired. Takes 1-2 pumps to fire over in the cold. It used to be 10-20. I always pump it once to set the choke, even if its hot.

I figured it was 950 or in that area...

A/C, Power Steering, and Auto trans are players in the recommended idle. The highest idlers being the A/C and P/S equipped Auto's. My P/S A/C Manual is recommended for 800RPM I believe. Sis' 81 3AC with no P/S and no A/c and a 5-speed idles around 650.

20v, I'm not saying its required to replace the head. Just an option. I've personally never Heli-Coiled, but I think it ought to be avoided where possible. Though, it is a viable last resort...
I like the idea of the expandable chaser because it allows you to know you'll have true threads. If you have threads at -\ angles, then try to chase the \ but engage the - instead, you'll screw it up more.

How the heck does someone do that? Wait.. Lemme guess... They decided to just put it in a wrench and try to start it. Idjit... You should always start all bolts, plugs, screws, etc by hand before attaching the power. Ensures no crossthreading. If it won't go in nice and easy almost all the way to the bottom, you need to investigate the threads on the plug and the hole for damage or gunk.

I've gotten a plug all the way in and overtightened to the point of actually pulling the threaded sleeve of the plug itself off. That was..... Interesting. Had to run on 3 NGK's and 1 Bosch +2 for a while. Never tried to torque them down since. I just tighten as far as I feel is tight.... I finger-tighten until the bottom, then wrench them. They don't go far with the wrench if I've done it right.

BTW... Where've you been 20v?

keith · Post by **keith** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:12 pm

Starfire, I wish they were a giveaway around here in TN. So far I've located one in GA for $657 (complete used) and a reman longblock in New York for $500 + $295 shipping and handling. I have two 3AC engines complete, one used in the car and the original worn out engine with 306k miles. I also have the original trannie with a broken fork and a JDM replacement. Waiting for more replies before making decision.

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:18 am

20vtercel wrote:Get a thread chaser. THey are cheap and can buy them anywhere that sells auto parts or basic tools. most chasers are "one size" as they are tapped for the plugs that require 5/8" on one end and 13/16" on the other with a wrench head in the middle....There is always a way and usually a chaser fixes the problem 99.9999999999% of the time.

I've had really good luck with homemade thread chasers. Just grind a couple of slots into an old plug. But I have more time than money.