Replacing cv joints - the 3rd option...

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waynehoc
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Replacing cv joints - the 3rd option...

Post by waynehoc »

Recently had my transaxle out looking for the source of clunking in the drive train. Ended up tightening up the diff; installing a new Toyota clutch kit, both ball joints and both halfshafts. Have to say, it is a pleasure to be driving the wagon now with no clunk, and a like new, tight front end.

I did not want to install 'rebuilt' halfshafts (just a headache waiting to happen), nor was I willing to cough up for new Toyota halfshafts (too expensive). What I did find, after a lot of searching on the 'Net, was a California company by the name of EMPI that manufactures NEW Rzeppa style outboard cv joints for our Tercels (my info is that the same halfshafts are used in '83 thru '86 sedans AND in ALL '83 thru '88 wagons). See the EMPI site here http://www.empius.com/drive_axles.html

The bottom line is that I now have NEW EMPI outboard Rzeppa style cv joints, new EMPI shafts and rebuilt inner Toyota tripod joints. Let me tell you that these new outer joints are TIGHT - smooth at highway speeds (used to have an annoying slight front end vibration), nice really tight steering (used to be quite loose, more like power steering) - NO looseness at all. I got the halfshafts from a local rebuilder who is also a distributor in B.C. for EMPI. If you have a look at the EMPI site, their catalogue will show complete new halfshaft assemblies, but my B.C. supplier says they are no longer available. What is available, he says, is the new shafts and new outboard Rzeppa cv joints. Highly recommended! The two halfshaft assemblies cost me $125 Cdn each.

John, of JMC Industries in Abbotsford http://www.jmcindustriesltd.com/Welcome.htm has this to say about the stock Toyota outboard fixed tripod cv joints "you can't rebuild them", and he does not rebuild them in his business. Now I know why so many 'rebuilt' ones are no good or quickly become no good. He says the quality of the rebuild for our outer cv joints depends on how good the core is to start with, and not too much can be done with them.

There is a good page here about rebuilding cv joints http://www.aa1car.com/library/cvgrind.htm one here about cv joints http://www.aa1car.com/library/cvjoint1.htm and one here on cv joint service & repair http://www.aa1car.com/library/cvjoint2.htm

John has told me he can drop ship to USA addresses, but any of you who may be interested in pursuing the EMPI route could either contact John thru the JMC website or email EMPI to inquire about a local EMPI distributor. I certainly can recommend John, based on my experience - he was very helpful, responded to my initial phone call very quickly, and freely shared his knowledge.

Here are a couple of pics I took of a stock 'rebuilt' Toyota halfshaft. This was installed in the last year of life of my parts car ('86 Tercel 2-door) by its previous owner. I can tell you it was/is a good example of a noisly, loose and clunky/clicky rebuilt.


Image

On the left is the outer, fixed tripod style cv joint 'tulip'. Note the ugly black mark in the pic at about 3-o'clock. This is a major wear indentation in the tulip corresponding to the main driving force of the tulip on one of the cv joint's tripod 'rollers'. All three tulip 'petals' had this - this rebuilt joint was extremely sloppy. To the left of the tulip is the spring steel cv joint assembly retainer which holds the joint from coming apart when assembled.

In the center is the other 'half' of the outer cv joint. Notice how the rollers are captured during the manufacturing process. How to install larger diameter rollers, which a desireable rebuild would entail - you tell me.

On the right are the two components of the inboard joints - the tulip, which can be ground during rebuild, and the roller assembly, which rollers can be changed out for new, larger ones during rebuild.


Image

A close up shot of the outboard tulip and other half of the joint. Note the lovely big dimple worn into the tulip 'petal'. As I mentioned, all three tulip drive parts had these ugly dimples = noise and lots of joint slop.

Image

Close up of the inboard sliding tripod joint components. The rollers are held on by snap rings, so its a simple matter to replace these rollers during a rebuild.

One thing I just remembered - the halfshafts I got from JMC came without the metal 'flingers' installed on the outer cv joints. I only became aware of this after I got home. It was no big deal for me to just remove two fairly new flingers from the two 'rebuilt' halfshafts I had and install them on the new EMPI halfshafts. But if anyone decides to go the same route I did, make sure the halfshafts have (new) flingers inastalled on the outer cv joints.
Last edited by waynehoc on Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
tercel4wdrules
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Post by tercel4wdrules »

Interesting... thanks for the info!

My Tercel also has the same problem. Moderately loose steering, minor clicking, clunking, and some slight vibration at highway speeds. It has two rebuilt axles which I have no idea when they were installed or how many miles are on them because I don't have a repair invoice for this job. I might just do the same when I have some $$$.
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Post by ARCHINSTL »

waynehoc -
As usual, fascinating information and informative links - and GREAT photos.
This is certainly worth pursuing.
Thanks !

What is your camera/process?
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Post by Typrus »

Flingers?
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

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1st Terc- 1987 Tercel SR5 4wd Wagon 6-speed, Sadly cubed

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waynehoc
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Post by waynehoc »

What is your camera/process?
Camera is a 5.1 MegaPixel HP Photosmart R707. I set it to take vga resolution pics which works out good for file size. Just try and use a steady hand to avoid blurry pics.
Flingers?
Poor choice of words methinks - pulled from my years as a power plant operator/mechanic. Toyota describes the front axle hub counterpart as a 'dust deflector'. See page FA-9 of the FSM. The 'flinger' as I call it, is the other 'half' of the dust deflector, and is friction fitted to the outboard cv joint housing. See the pics below. The housing on the left has the flinger removed; in the housing on the right the flinger is still attached.


Image


Image
keith
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Post by keith »

How do you get those pictures to appear in the post? I want to show photos of how I do front end alignments in the driveway with a 2x4.

I went to the web site you listed and e-mailed to company to find out if they have any dealers in Tennessee. I haven't hear back yet. Does the guy who sold them to you know of any dealers near Memphis? I would prefer to buy as local as possible.
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Post by takza »

keith wrote:How do you get those pictures to appear in the post? I want to show photos of how I do front end alignments in the driveway with a 2x4.
You have to have them on the web somewhere...can't upload to this site though. Photobucket? Others?

Would like to see your method....
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waynehoc
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Post by waynehoc »

How do you get those pictures to appear in the post?
As takza pointed out, you have to have uploaded your pics to a site such as photobucket. Then you just create links to the pics in your post, by using the 'Img' button, once before the url of the pic, and once after the url of the pic. I.e., [img]url%20of%20pic[/img]
I went to the web site you listed and e-mailed to company to find out if they have any dealers in Tennessee. I haven't hear back yet. Does the guy who sold them to you know of any dealers near Memphis? I would prefer to buy as local as possible.
It took about two business days for me to hear back from EMPI for a local dealer to contact. I doubt the guy in B.C. would know of any EMPI dealers elsewhere; you will have to get that info from EMPI.
keith
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Post by keith »

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Still haven't heard from EMPI
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Post by waynehoc »

Keith, I have sent you a pm.

Wayne
keith
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Post by keith »

Thanks, your source sent me the name of a supplier in Memphis. Thats still a drive for me, I would do that if it was the only alternative. He also told me that I could go to the EMPI web site, look up the driveshaft I need and order it through my local NAPA dealer via their World Part program. Since I go right by a NAPA dealer on my way to work every day, I think I"ll take that route. Thanks again for your help.
waynehoc
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Post by waynehoc »

Keith, let us know if EMPI does still supply the complete new half shaft assemblies. My supplier in B.C. said they did not, so he supplied me with new outboard joints, new shafts, and rebuilt inboard joints. But I find it puzzling that EMPI lists the complete half shaft assemblies in the catalogue, which tells me they should be available. Curious, too, as to what the price will be for you in the USA, particlularly if you can get complete new half shaft assemblies.
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Post by coltarms »

I replaced my drivers side shaft a while back with a Napa rebuild.....it's clunking again. I remember that there were a few posts regarding the life expectancy of the rebuilt axles from the different vendors. I did a couple searches and only found that most people had issues of repeaded failures within 6 mos of driving on the Napa CV's. Is this Rzeppa CV better? If so, why? How is it different from the OE joint? Is the Cardone unit any good? Should I actually pony up and pay Toyota for a new one? My current plan is to have Napa honor my warranty and try another one, but I really don't want to do this job 4 times before I get a good one.
keith
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Post by keith »

Toyota has started selling rebuilt halfshafts that they claim are up to their standards.
waynehoc
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Post by waynehoc »

Is this Rzeppa CV better? If so, why? How is it different from the OE joint? Is the Cardone unit any good? Should I actually pony up and pay Toyota for a new one?
Have a read here http://www.aa1car.com/library/cvjoint1.htm Rzeppa has six balls compared to the three 'balls' of our OEM tripod joints. The article implies that Rzeppa is much better suited to the 'steeper' angles of outboard service than the tripod. Our OEM outboards are tripods, and are cheaper to manufacture compared to Rzeppa joints, according to the article. The thing I like best about the Rzeppa joints is that they are brand new from EMPI.

The brand new Toyota OEM's are very pricey, compared to what I paid - $385.42 US here http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ ... atalogid=1 Although, to be fair, I did not get new inboard joints (got rebuilts), only new shafts and new outboard (Rzeppa) joints. Its an absolute pleasure to be driving with a tight front end with no clunk that I have been able to notice. Again, to be fair, I did other things to tighten up my front end and get rid of annoying clunking, as I mentioned in my original post.

The Cardone joints are, I believe, rebuilt OEM halfshafts. I have no experience with them, but was on my third rebuilt drivers side halfshaft, which was very clunky on the outboard end, and with noticeable slop/play in the joint.
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