New to the forum but eager!!!!!!!!!!

[Lollypop]

I am new to forum but eager to get at my car

I have spent a week reading what you other guys have to say but it brings me to alot of questions because of my lack of knowledge on the 4WD wagon.

1. I read where people are talking about stiffened springs. What exactly is that and what purpose does it serve.

2. I also read about some struts being rebuildable and some not...How can I tell if mine are rebuildable?

3. I see a pic in the gallery of Dirtmagnets car with 14" mudders on it. Will they fit and my car look like that without a lift?...if not how much lift is that and how do I go about it?


I have many many more questions but they will have to wait for another time so I can digest the info I get from these question now. I take it from reading the forums that these little cars are like having a 4WD truck that looks like a Tercel Wagon....I sure hope so because I cant wait to play.

Any other info or advice y'all think I need feel free to put it here....I'm anxious to " Git er Done"

Thanks alot
-----Justin-----

[Finder349]

I think everything you asked is answerd in the same treads that you got the questions from.

1. Stiffer springs if the same hight as stock (unloaded) will give a firmer and taller ride. This is good for off-road and on-road stability as long as they are not too stiff.

2. Not 100% here but if the top of the strut has a bolt looking part that a person could put a wrench on then it has a chance of being rebuildable. That part will unscrew and the internals can be replaced.

3. Nope I think not. Pretty sure that car has some amount of lift. Speeking of lift it is generally considered safe to take these cars to 2 inches above stock but more can cause issues. Note that depending on your cars condition that it may be below stock hieght now due to time and miles.

I may catch hell for this but I do not find the search function to be very accurate. STILL though it is worth using and reading the posts since (and here again I catch hell) it seems people tend to get off topic a little and so the info is not always where you expect to find it.

Best of luck,

Calvin

[Lollypop]

Thanks alot calvin,
I thought for a minute I was the only one who could see my post, I know these are elementary question but n'm new at these cars.

Where is the search function?....I must be blind but I cant find it.

One last thing what is the stock height for my car and where do ya measure from?

-----Justin-----

[Gasoline Fumes]

Where is the search function?....I must be blind but I cant find it.

There's a link on the top of every page.
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/search.php

[Finder349]

Yes it took me some time to find the search also.

The is from another tread and the credit goes to someone else but here is the info that they posted about ride hieght.

"Here are the specs for RIDE HEIGHT for the '83-'84 4WD wagons:

FRONT: height is measured from the CENTER of the inside pivot of the Track Control Arm to the ground = 234.9 mm / 9 16/64".

REAR: height is measured from the CENTER of the front pivot of the Trailing Link (long link front of axle..both sides) to the ground = 273.5 mm / 10 24/32". "

There is other good info also if I can just find the tread...

Calvin

[Lollypop]

Thanks a lot fellas,
I I have alotta info running around in my head about my car but its like a puzzle sometimes I’m missing pieces due to my inexperience with the Terc 4WD. You fellas have added a few pieces to the whole.

I was in Advanced Auto Parts the other day checkin prices on springs for my Terc. I found out that their computers had the specs on the springs. Mine are as follows:

FRONT:
Inside dia. = 4.68 in.
Bar dia. = 0.5 in.
Free height = 15.68 in.
Spring rate = 100.5 lbs/in.
Load = 570 lbs
Load height = 10 in.

REAR:
Inside dia. = conical
Bar dia. = 0.485 in.
Free height = 12.61 in.
Spring rate = 122 lbs/in.
Load = 318 lbs
Load height = 10 in.

Next thing to do is decipher all this info into something useful. I wondered why is all this info different front to rear on the same car? Then I figured out that the front had a larger bar dia. and a taller free height due to the added weight of the engine, but had a final load height of 10 in. same as the rear


The way I figure it is if you take a brand new set of front springs and install them on the rear, by the time you add the same weight that the original springs had to the new ones you will have a 3.07 in. lift to the rear of the car in an easy and safe manner. Once this is done you have 50% of a lift complete now all you have to do is find a set of springs (brand new) from another automobile that has a bar dia. 4.68 - 0.5 in. and a free height of approx. 18.75 in. for the front then you will end up with a Terc with a lift of 3.07 in.

All these specs can be adjusted up or down to give your Terc the ride height you want.

Now all this is in theory sounds real good on paper and in my head but you can bank on me trying it…..if it works I’m set and if it don’t I’ll keep crunchin numbers till it does.

My main objective is to have a Terc with 2-3 in. accomplished in such a way as to be fairly easy for the average Joe without a machine shop and safe enough that when I’m catchin air on a dune my welded spring doesn’t break or when I’m climbin outta my favorite mud hole that little Auto Zone lift thingy doesn’t pop out and go boom. See those would really screw up a great wheelin day by mashin my Terc or worse Breakin my fool neck.

If any of you have any input don’t be shy shy…let’s hear it. I believe with 355 members here we can all put our heads together and figger this out

Happy Wheelin’

-----Justin/Lollypop-----

[Gasoline Fumes]

I'm guessing the front springs won't fit on the rear. But that info is very helpful! I'd look for springs with a rate about 50% higher (maybe even more in the rear to reduce understeer and handle more cargo weight) with about the same free height. That should get you some lift. I don't think a 3" lift would be a good idea with springs alone. If you take the load height of the rear springs and add 3" to it, you will be over the free height. This means the rear shocks will be fully extended. And the front struts would be very close to fully extended. I'm pretty sure you will have very weird/dangerous handling and poor ride quality. Longer shocks with more travel in the rear would work great if you can find something from a different application that'll fit. But you probably won't be able to find a longer strut that will work up front. You'll notice the factory suspension has approximately a 2:1 compression to rebound stroke ratio, I'd try to stay close to that. This is why I like the spacers between the struts and the body in the front. Plus it's easier.

Maybe a spring lift in the rear with longer shocks and a slight spring lift in the front (~1"?) combined with strut spacers would be ideal? Longer rear shocks would help off-road articulation too.

[Typrus]

http://www.skiwagons.com
Dunno if they are still up and running, if they still care about their little project, or what. I just wish it was possible to get ahold of them. They sell a 2 inch lift with most of what is necessary.
I personally think that for the safest lift, longer trailing links, long CV joints, etc are necessary. In the front, the more lift you get, the more the front wheels suck in. That equals high center of gravity, but a narrower track. Not safe. So you need a way to ram them back out to stock or wider track.
I think the best bet for that is to convert to solid front axle. Within budget, a SFS will be better offroad than an IFS. That and it gives you the option to attempt to convert to Tacoma brakes/tranny and all. For hardcore offroad, that is likely the best. For milder offroad, a spring/absorber/link lift would work fairly well.

Personal opinion.

[takza]

I was in Advanced Auto Parts the other day checkin prices on springs for my Terc. I found out that their computers had the specs on the springs. Mine are as follows:

FRONT:
Inside dia. = 4.68 in.
Bar dia. = 0.5 in.
Free height = 15.68 in.
Spring rate = 100.5 lbs/in.
Load = 570 lbs
Load height = 10 in.

REAR:
Inside dia. = conical
Bar dia. = 0.485 in.
Free height = 12.61 in.
Spring rate = 122 lbs/in.
Load = 318 lbs
Load height = 10 in.

Next thing to do is decipher all this info into something useful.

You are on the right track! If someone would follow thru on this ...we might find inexpensive replacement springs for the rear and maybe even some good booster springs all around.

With 2 rubber boosters in each spring...my car still is below OEM height.

[Lollypop]

Gasoline Fumes:

Im not sure if theyd fit or not but dont see why they wouldnt unless "conical" means "over 4.68 in." But I see what you are saying about 50% more rate and and same free height. That way you would the 2" lift ya want unless you had a shit load of cargo weight and at the same time you would have way stiffer springs when going wheeling.( more for my equation) you are absolutely right about the longer shocks in the rear. i didnt think of that.
Heres a question for you: what do you mean about the 2:1 ratio and where did you get the info? also where are you talking about spacing the front Struts? I read this in another post but there wasnt enough info to explain it. I also read where someone spaced the front cross member...where and how is that done? O.K. a few questions



Typrus:

You are probably right about the trailing arms and longer cv axles but that will require much cut and weld which is more work than I plan to do to lift my ride (I want more time to wheel) Same goes for the solid front axle and tacoma tranny and such. I personally want to modify/customize my Terc for some good ole mud boggin and hill climbing I dont want to build a new Automobile thats why I was looking at things the way I did and why I agree with Gasoline Fumes' ideas I live down South where we can play outdoors 10-11 months out of the year sometimes more (its 57 deg right now) so I want a safe/fairly easy/faily speedyt solution to my equation so I can clean the grease off my hands and hit the dirt

Like I said in my last post ....I think we can all put our heads together and figure this out and then Ill be crazy enough to try it and maybe we will find the solution for us and future TercHeads.

Thanks guys
-----Justin-----

[Gasoline Fumes]

I think the best bet for that is to convert to solid front axle. Within budget, a SFS will be better offroad than an IFS. That and it gives you the option to attempt to convert to Tacoma brakes/tranny and all. For hardcore offroad, that is likely the best. For milder offroad, a spring/absorber/link lift would work fairly well.

Personal opinion.

If someone wanted a Toyota with truck suspension, Toyota makes that too. Trying to put truck suspension on a Tercel seems like way too much work when you could just buy a truck. Also it would kill the jack-of-all-trades character of the 4x4 Tercel and make it drive like a truck. But I'd still love to see the results if someone is crazy enough to do it.

I think Skiwagons is gone.

[Gasoline Fumes]

Gasoline Fumes:

Im not sure if theyd fit or not but dont see why they wouldnt unless "conical" means "over 4.68 in." But I see what you are saying about 50% more rate and and same free height. That way you would the 2" lift ya want unless you had a shit load of cargo weight and at the same time you would have way stiffer springs when going wheeling.( more for my equation) you are absolutely right about the longer shocks in the rear. i didnt think of that.
Heres a question for you: what do you mean about the 2:1 ratio and where did you get the info? also where are you talking about spacing the front Struts? I read this in another post but there wasnt enough info to explain it. I also read where someone spaced the front cross member...where and how is that done? O.K. a few questions

I think conical means one side of the spring is wider than the other. You need to be careful in the rear since the springs are held in by tension only. If they don't sit right on the perches, I think they could fall out. That'll ruin your day of wheeling!

Now that I think about it I'm not sure if that 2:1 ratio is accurate. I got it by comparing the spring free height and load height you posted. I now realize that I should be comparing the load height versus no-load, but installed height. The point I was trying to make was that you should have adequate travel so the struts and shocks don't bottom out or top out. So let's assign an arbitrary number of 1 for the shocks/struts fully bottomed out and 10 for fully extended. And if a stock Tercel parked on level ground sits with the shocks/struts extended to maybe 6, then you should try to stay close to that when lifting it so you don't run out of travel. I hope that makes sense. It makes sense in my head but I don't know if it's coming out in a way that anyone else will understand.

[Lollypop]

That makes perfect sense........

The more I thought about your post before the more I Figured out what you meant....and it made good sense so I have added that to the equation of lifting our rides

I have a buddy who manages O'Rileys Auto Parts and I'm getting with him and we are goin to start researching springs on other models and makes of cars to see what we can use. Also I am in contact with a guy at a coil spring custom manufacter to see what he suggests and what we need to get the rersults we need......I take it he is giving me the info thinking I will buy springs from him buuuuut once I have the info the I can go to my buddy and cross reference to find thed same thing on the shelf at a fraction of the price.

Like I said before enough of us put our heads to it we'll figure this out

By the way did y'all know Super Swamper Tires makes a 14" mud tire?

-----Justin-----

[Typrus]

All things worth while are hard to attain.
Feh. I've heard from many places I should just take the Terc body and pop it on a truck frame. Funny thought, but I actually may look into it. (shrug)
Supposedly Bilstein had custom struts and shocks that'd compensate for 2" more travel? May call them and find out?

[Finder349]

Just an info point. I am into the old 73-79 1200cc Honda Civic. One trick we use is to put a set of front springs on the rear and get a set of front 1500cc springs for the front of the 1200. See the 1200 has an aluminum block and the 1500 has a cast iron block. We cut the spings for a normal ride hight but the result is a stiffer spring rate and better handling.

My point is lets not give up on the front spings on the rear yet. Maybe if we cut the extra little bit of stuff off the front springs when we put them in the rear then we can get that magic 2 inches of lift rather than the 3.

WooHoo what fun,

Calvin