Engine Rebuild Crankshaft Questions

[Petros]

yes, that will do. but .185 mm is about 0.00728 inch. You can buy a metal feeler gauge at any auto parts store for about $4, and it will have metal feeler gauge blades down to 0.002", if the .007" will not fit in the gap (push the crank fully to forward, and than back, measure from both sides), than you are good. I have never seen the crank end play a problem, I just visually check by moving the crank forward, and than aft, you can barely feel the movement. If I feel more than I think is correct, than I check with my own dial indicator (bought at a garage sale for $10 with a magnetic base and adjustable arm). But a blade type metal feeler gauge will also work. I think this only wears if you seldom change your oil and gritty oil eventually grinds all the internal surfaces away, usually rings will be long gone before the end play wears out of range.

[DanT]

Excellent! I have a set of go/no-go feeler gauges that I use for setting the valves. Just checked the sizes and I have 6 gauge sizes from .178 mm to .305 mm. This will be easier than trying to set up a dial indicator. I was not sure if I could place a metal feeler gauge in between the veritical polished surface on the crank and the thrust bearing. Sounds like this should be fine... and I will not force it. Thanks once again! I can see the way forward now...

Dan

[DanT]

Making progress here but putting this oil pan on looks like a challenge. I see 3 possible approaches:

1) Unbolt the tension bar for the front end? (The mechanics at the shop did this when the car was up on the lift, I assume to get the oil pan out. I bolted it back in place afte the car was transported to my house. I was pissed at those mechanics because I asked them to make sure that bar was bolted back into place before the transport truck picked up the car and hauled it onto the trailer as an "inop". That bar is difficult to bolt and unbolt, but is this the only way in with the oil pan?

2) Petros mentions unbolting the mounts on the engine to jack it up to gain access. If I do this can I avoid taking off the from tension bar?

3) The other option would be to snake this oil pan in from the top (and tuck the pickup inside of it)... after taking the fan assembly off. Has any one gone this route. Cannot tell if it would work. But it is tempting.

Please let me know if you see the easiest way forward from here?

Crank journals are all good and bearings are all torqued. In my case the rod bearings looked perfect. Really no need to replace them, but I did anyway. The #4 and #5 upper mains would have been really difficult to replace. The jounals an lower main bearings looked perfect there and were coated with oil, so I did not replace those uppers. All bearings were on spec with plastigauge (fitted dry and lubed later). Thrust clearance came in on specification with the feeler guage.

Thanks once again!

Dan

From Petos earlier in this post about putting the oil pan on:"Also, you will have to put the oil pick inside the pan and install the 2 nuts and 2 bolts that hold on the oil pick up with the pan hanging loose. there is no way to wiggle the pan into place with the oil pick-up in place when the engine is in the car. BTW, if you unbolt the front engine mounts and jack the front of the engine as high you can it will give you more room to work over the cross member."

[DanT]

Got the tension bar unbolted now (sway bar). Looks like the pan can be dropped in from the top with the radiator fan removed, turned and slotted in this way. Have done a dry fit and looks like this will work. Toyota did not put studs in the new pump for the oil pickup. Will fix that next...

Progress...

Dan

[dlb]

dan, i can't remember if we talked about this previously or not but before you reinstall the sway bar, be sure to check the condition of the bushings, collars, and sway bar ends. where the sway bar passes through the control arm is a real rust haven so it's one of the first things i check on each terc that enters my life. i know you've got other fish to fry right now but wanted to mention that in case it's something you haven't looked at recently.

now back to your oil pump!

[DanT]

DLB,

Oil pan is in. Worked pretty well that way.

Just want to make sure the followin is correct when intalling a new timing belt (screen shot attached from FSM).

1) Camshaft pin hole aligned with center marking... with both valves closed in #1 Cylinder.
2) Crankshaft at TDC... with piston at the top of a cycle in #1 cylinder.

The reason I ask is because the #1 cylinder goes to the top of a cycle for both compression and exhaust in a 4 cylce engine. So it seems like the tdc that was the exhaust cycle before could become the tdc that is now the compression cycle? (Which maybe does not matter since the 2 outside pistons go up together and then the 2 inside pistons go up together next.)

DLB
I know that you are spot-on with that advice abouty the sway bar. The good news is that I replaced those bushings in December last year... with original Toyota bushings from Bultler Toyota in Pennsylvania. Tom was of help with that project as well as others. Car alignment and handling was much improved. Certainly was badly needed at that time... and it was a bear of a project... with about 242k on those rusty bolts. Needed serious amounts of blaster and the MAP gas heat to break the rusty bolts at the ends of the bar. I used never-seize on the bolts to the frame last time, so those bolts came off much more easily this time. Looks like I will be able to jack the bar back into place and bolt it much more easily this time.

GREAT! to have the block together with the oil pump and oil pan on!!!

Thanks for all of the help!

Dan

[Petros]

the way you know the valves for the number one cylinder are at TDC and not at top of exhaust stroke is both valves will be closed. you can tell because there will be the clearance space over the valves stem (at the rocker arms). because of the valve cycle overlap at the top of the exhaust stroke the valves will be near closed, but not quite, and there will be no cleaance at the valve stem. fast way to check is wiggle the rocker arms on both valve sets, when at TDC you can feel the little gap, when at top of exhaust stroke you will not be able to wiggle the rocker arms up and down. the position if the crank is always the same, piston is at top of travel or not, what determines TDC is the valve timing.

[DanT]

Petros,

Perectly clear. Your posts are extremely helpful. Feeling confident that I can move ahead with this now. Your specific advice on how to handle this whole situation from the start has been invaluable! (Polishing a journal without pulling and engine, installing an oil pan with the pickup inside the pan, etc) This has all been tremendously helpful. Thanks so much once again. Hopefully this will get me to "wheels-down" from here. Will keep you posted.

Dan

[DanT]

Anybody have some advice on how to break in a motor with all new bearings this time? I was told after my last rebuild went down to drive at various speeds for the first 500 miles and not to push it too hard. Sound reasonable? I will be mostly around town with lots of hills.

I plan to put 5-30 mobile oil in the crankcase pretty soon to fire it up ... unless that is a mistake? (5-30 or 10-30 is the normal weight we run here in central NY state during this time of year.) Figured I should do my first oil change early. Maybe after a few hundred miles? Suggestions welcome. Thanks!

Dan

[Petros]

the "break-in" period is most important to seating the rings in properly, since that did not change you do not need to do that. The rings need to interact with the newly honed cylinder walls so they get a surface that is lubricated with a thin film of oil yet does not allow to much oil to get past the rings. Most factories do the break-in now to ensure long ring life, but if you have already done that there is not really any break in necessary. the bearings should be riding also on .003-.004 thick layer of oil, there should be no contact and nothing to "wear in". Normally you do break-in with straight 30 weight oil, and change after only 500 miles.

I would use regular oil and perhaps just change it a bit early, like 2000 miles.

[DanT]

Petros,

Thanks. I did not know the reason that a rebuilt engine should be handled differently when breaking it in. This is very helpful. Much appreciated.

Dan

[xirdneh]

I read an Internet article 8 years ago that said the engine is already broke in so you just need to seat the rings.
The article said to get the car on the road immediatly (absolutly no idleing)
the first 20 miles are the most important so drive it hard running thru the gears over and over
i did just that on my daily driver 8 years ago and it has been a great engine
I have searched for that article several times over the years but never found it
the guy claimed to have re-built hundreds of motor cycle engines along with car engines

[DanT]

New twist to my challenges: Last night my overly zealoous neighbor managed to strip the treads out of the 10mm bolt hole on the sway bar clamp on the driver's side (more on antisieze questions related to torque later in the post). I have not tapped a hole like this before, nor have I used helicoil. My neighbor has been in the aviation busisness so he is familiar with both approaches. Not sure of the best way forward:

1) Drill the 10mm bolt hole larger and tap it for a 12 mm bolt. (Use a 13/32 bit for the hole size = 10.31 mm; same size bit is used for helicoil). The thread depth inside this hole is about 16mm. My concern with either approach is whether there is enough metal wall thickness inside the hole to use either approach? Cost is less than $8, but intruduces a new bolt size.

2) Use a helicoil kit to replace the threads in the current hole, and use the same size 10mm bolt. I am not familiar with this process yet, but understand this approach is reliable also. Drill bit size is the same at 13/16. Helicoil kit from Azone for 10mm bolt is $30.

What happened?

These holes were corroded when I changed the sway bar bushings 1 year ago. The bolts were not easy to work with then. I put anti-seize on the bolts when I put them back in. And the bolts did come out without much trouble to put the pan on the engine.

However, I STUPIDLY gave my friend the torque number in the FSM for those bolts and he torqued them all the way up... and stripped one of them. I knew that the torque specs should be lower when using anti-seize, but it did not register at the time.

I later looked up the toruque specs for bolts with anti-seize and am seeing a recommendation that the same torgue on the wrench produces 30% more torgue in the bolt hole... and holds just as well... and the bolt comes out easier. They suggest that the torque can be reduced by 30% for the same result (some sites said 40%). Opinions are encouraged and welcome. I do not claim to be an expert on this.

Dan

[dlb]

dan, are you talking about the captive nuts in the cross member that the sway bar mounts to the frame on? the ones that each have two 14 mm bolts? that's what it sounds like, and they certainly can be a pain to line up when putting the sway bar back on. how badly stripped are the captive nuts? if they're not too bad, i would just take the appropriate tap and die and chase the threads on both the nut and bolt and see how it is. i believe it's a 1.25 x 10 mm. if that doesn't work, i would use helicoils on the current hole. it would cost a little bit but like you said, it is the safest way to avoid the possibility of running out of meat on the nut. if that happens, you would have to remove the entire cross member and either weld in a new nut or replace the whole thing with one from a wrecker--way too much work for a stripped nut.

with the exception of engine internals (like head bolts), i don't usually worry about torque specs. i aim for snug on a sliding scale: big nuts and bolts get really snug, and little ones only get a little snug. i've learned the hard way after stripping many a thing with overzealous torquing.

[rer233]

fixed a friends t4wd years ago with the same problem. fortunately,i had a length of 7/16' all-thread (pertty much the same size as 11mm.) drilled the stripped hole out some, ran a 7/16" coarse tap thru the hole, put a short piece of all-thread with loctite in the hole, drilled out the bracket a little, and put a nut on- didn't have any 7/16" bolts. or, you can go the helicoil route. wouldn't drill to 12mm tho. good luck!