head gasket

simon84 · Post by **simon84** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:37 am

I picked up an 87 sr5 from Washington near Tacoma this summer and imported it back here to canada. It is in great shape rust-wise but wouldn't idle and now it appears that the head gasket is gone (pressure and fumes in the radiator). It has a 4ac. I am about to start working on the head gasket. I am also planning to remove the AC and put in a larger readiator (from a 6cyl. camry). I've done head gaskets on my old 70's corollas but that was a while ago now. I have the chilton manual. Anybody got any hints or tricks for me. Any ideas if I should do any other things while I am in there? Will I need any other gaskets (like valve cover)? Will I need to set the valve lash as I did on the old corolla, 2TC engine? DOesn't say so in the manual.
Thanks in advance for any help anyone may have.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:03 am

Well, it's not too terribly difficult to do on a 3AC, so I can't see it being too hard on a 4AC.
BTW, this may not get posted. The admins at school have something stuck up... Well, you know where.
Ok. To do the HG, you'll have to be removing at least the timing belt. It the replace time of that is an unknown, do it. Worth it while you're in there. Just make sure you mark cam position at #1 Cyl. TDC. Otherwise cam timing can get off and running will suffer.
If the valve cover seal/gasket is bad and leaking, replace it along with the little half-moon seal in the back. If they appear alright, ust make sure you reinstall properly and it should be fine. Not the hardest thing to get to anyway.

Well, this is an Overhead-Cam setup. Your valve lash will not change from removing the head. What CAN change if you take off the head is your cam timing. I can't stress that enough.

Well, it all depends. If this has been happening for a while, the water pump could be on its way out. Since removing the head requires loosening the timing belt requires getting into that general vicinity, changing the water pump wouldn't be a bad idea. Its not too expensive, not too hard to do either. Just make sure that you keep oil and coolant away from the timing belt. They like to eat it.

You might want to get the block and head checked for true. If nothing else, at least the head. If you so desire, you might even have it hot-tanked. If you do, make sure you put some assembly lube into the cam and associated moving parts to prevent undue wear the first startup. Why hot-tank? The reason is that it will get carbon out of some lovely places. I dunno if you would be required to remove the valves when they do it (which if you are, you might do the stem seals) but I doubt it. Even if you have to, have them tank the valves (unless you'll be replacing them which is very likely to be unnecessary unless they are warped/bent) because they tend to get an absolutely lovely buildup on the back, intake valves especially.

You'll want to make sure you get both surfaces as clean as possible. Watch you don't accidently drop any gasket material into the water jacket or the oil galleries.

I'm sure more people can eleborate more, though I suppose before anyone does... Are you planning any mods, or just to get it running?

simon84 · Post by **simon84** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:14 pm

Thanks for that.
I just want to get it running for now. I think the carb is kinda pooched though so I'd like to eventually get a weber on there. That and the new rad are the only mods I'm planning under the hood.
i assume there will be no problems with removing the AC. It doesn't work and I don't really need it up here in the great white north.
I'm also wondering about the steering. If I'm not mistaken, it has power steering. My 84 doesn't have power steering and I get along fine. Is that something that can be disconnected in favour of less stuff under the hood and more power going through the tranny?

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:22 pm

Don't take off the pump and hoses and leave the P/S rack if thats what you mean. They don't last long if you do that. You could likely put in a Manual rack, but you'll have to change your caster angle and maybe some other stuff. Check from your 84 to the 87. The knuckle might be different as well.

The A/C, if you never use it, is dead weight. You might look into removing the whole network, rather than just the compressor and condenser. If you do that... How much would you want for it? Acumulator, drier, tubing, evaporator, condensor, compressor... controller..
There may well be 100lbs or more worth of stuff in there you can remove if you'll never use it.
Where are you at again?

I've considered looking into electro-boost power steering. No hydraulics, all electronic. Likely expensive as hell though... I've also looked at swapping the P/S pump to the drivers side to kill some of the hosing. Most of that seemingly extra tubing and hosework is for cooling purposes. If the pump were moved and that tubing deleted, a small P/S fluid cooler would be needed. Look on Ford Super Duty pickups. Most have them. Would kill some of the clutter on the pass. side though, and on our cars, thats where you might put, say, a turbo? >.<

simon84 · Post by **simon84** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:19 pm

Yeah I think I'll leave the power steering set up.
I'll pull all the AC though. for now I'll just pull the main stuff under the hood. Maybe later I'll get the rest out if somebody wants it. It's probably a pain to get the stuff out from under the dash.
I'll do the timing belt and water pump while I'm in there.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Mickey_D · Post by **Mickey_D** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:26 pm

As stated in another thread, if all you're doing is swapping out the head gaskets, leave your intake and exhaust mainfolds bolted on. Pull the head with them attatched. It will save you a headache.

If you're pulling all the A/C crap, consider leaving the compressor pump there. If you take the inlet hose and stick a small air filter on it and use the output to pressurise an air tank, voile', portable air for filling tires, etc. They don't tend to last too long without any lubricant coming in the intake, but even if it's only a year or two, what the hey. It's handy....

Jts · Post by **Jts** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:07 am

just for the record, you cannot hot tank alum...

if your power steering isn't functioning right, you can just disconnect everything and cap the lines. Apparently its popular with the vw guys. If the lines are capped, the rack won't suffer any damage. Its just somewhat cheesy. I'd imagine the steering effort wouldnt even be that bad with it removed. Cant be much worse than my mk1 mr2

If you find a good radiator match, please share. Ive looked at junkyards for a suitable sized radiator with hoses both on the pass side. THe late 80s v6 camrys did look good, but they are quite large and have auto tranny coolers (by default almost) which kind of makes things messy. You might want to check older integras and mitsubishi sedans (early 90s). I found 1 mitsu radiator that was almost perfect, even had 1 hole for the fan switch that looked like the treads would match. I cheaped out and decided to try to jb water weld my radiator for the time being. It lasted 800 miles before leaking slightly.

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:11 am

Jts wrote:If you find a good radiator match, please share. Ive looked at junkyards for a suitable sized radiator with hoses both on the pass side.

A radiator from a Hyundai Excel kinda fits. The upper hose gets kinked a little and it sits crooked. I don't remember why it's crooked. Not a perfect fit, but it's bigger and aluminum.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:14 am

I've had aluminum hot-tanked. Must just be a different cleaning process than a typical hot tank. Had the same effect though. An abrasion-free super clean.

I've thought about putting A/C in my sis' 81 Corolla Tercel. She needs it for the baby.

Indeed. I'm also curious about any bigger rads that will fit.

I've been told that without the recirculating fluid the P/S rack's like to die fairly quickly, especially the older you get.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:56 am

hate to poo in your pie, but babies have existed in hot climates alot longer than A/C has been around.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:16 am

Yeah, but the inside of a car can get very very hot. When its 110 out and the sun is glaring into an untinted old car with bad ventilation, you tend to want every edge you can get.

I personally don't want to take any chances with my niece.

simon84 · Post by **simon84** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:01 am

So I spent a couple of days in my brother's garage doing the head gasket and here's some pics.

cleaned things upa bit.

I did the timing belt while I was in there. The belt was wearing a bit. The side closest to the engine was crumbling a bit. You can see crumbs of rubber stuck to the tension wheel and the block. The tension wheel also was a bit rusty and dirty where it should probably be clean smooth metal. I'm wondering if that will wear out the belt quicker.

I got a new water pump but they gave me the wrong one at the parts store and when I took the old one off it looked ok so it went back on.
I also put in the Camry radiator. The pipe locations are perfect and it was not too hard to fit in there. There was one wire that plugged into the old one that was not present on the new one. I'm thinking it may be a temp sensor to control the fan. I might try to install it into the lower rad hose. I'm also thinking I should have replaced the thermostat while I was in there but I'll try to get to that. Is it easy to check it's function?

I set the timing at what it was before and it fired right up no problem. It still idles a bit rough but I think that's the carb.
I'm wondering if I should retork the head bolts after a while or should it be fine. The valves sound a bit clicky so I'm thinking of checking them sometime.
I also got all the AC stuff out from under the hood.
Typrus, if you are interested in that we could figure out shipping. I still need to get the unit out from under the dash as you'd probably need that too.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:21 am

Just let me know and I'll try hard to see if we can pay you.
Can you get some more pics of the rad if you don't mind too much?

Good to hear shes running.

Why do you think they sent you the wrong one? If it was just the impellor, there are 2 styles. One is more or less stamped steel, the other looks to be forged iron. I'd imagine the iron one would last longer, but the steel one looks to have more pumping capacity. Larger fin surface areas that is.

Does your fan run constantly? With the fan-switch temp-switch unplugged, it'll just run all day long.

Crimeny....... You have one hell of a clean engine, internally... Compare it to my 84 engine I pulled apart? No comparison.... Jeeze... But then again, the 84 died before we discovered additives, SeaFoam in particular.

skullone · Post by **skullone** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:22 pm

Nice, but I'd love to see more pictures of the process cleaning the pistons, or valves

I plan on doing my head gasket soon, so I'll try to document the steps as well.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:36 pm

simon84 wrote: I did the timing belt while I was in there. The belt was wearing a bit. The side closest to the engine was crumbling a bit. You can see crumbs of rubber stuck to the tension wheel and the block. The tension wheel also was a bit rusty and dirty where it should probably be clean smooth metal. I'm wondering if that will wear out the belt quicker.

I've seen this kind of end wear on a belt on another car....I'm thinking it might be due to increased end play in either the cam or the crank. Or maybe the crank gear wears enough to cause the belt to run to one side? Might be the belt itself...where some of the glass fibers are failing?

Main thing with the tensioner is that the bearing is smooth?