Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post about yourself, your Tercel, or your Tercel projects in here, share pictures of your Tercel, or post trip threads!
User avatar
dlb
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 7305
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by dlb »

hey greg! i replaced the sway bar-to-control arm bushings and metal tube, inner and outer tie rods, balls joints, and strut mounts within 2-3 years ago so all those should be good. check the receipts for those things for the exact dates on when i did them.

i had a problem tracking down that right-side clunk when i had ron, which is one of the reasons i mentioned it to you way back when. IIRC, that axle that is in there was a brand new GSP axle but i still noticed some clunking at the same times you mention. i don't recall having that clunking before i did the front end lift (just camry springs in the stock struts) so that was the next place i was going to look. i was planning on either going back to stock shocks and springs all way around, or trying the all track/MR2 hybrid struts like synthdesign has in his terc. never got that far though.

now that i think about it though, although those are typical CV symptoms i have had wheel bearings give CV-esque symptoms too. if you still have perry the parts car, i would try swapping the right side steering knuckle to rule out the bearing. that's free and easy to do.

good luck, and keep us posted. that clunk frustrated the hell out of me for a long time.
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by Petros »

GLet71 wrote:I checked the passenger side CV joint, and sure enough, there is some side to side movement in it. The drivers' side has no play whatsoever, and all mounts, suspension, and steering parts appear to be normal. Time to start finding some parts so I can get Ron back on the road!
what do you mean exactly by "side to side"? I am not sure if you described the play I am reffering to. The CV axle does have plunge built into the design, that is the axle as the ability to "telecscop" some, that is get longer and shorter. So you should be able to move the axle straight in and out a little.

The motion you should not have in the CV joint is rotational slop. IOW, when you rotate the axle shaft forward and backward, there should be no rotational play at the joint.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
marlinh
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 1584
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:15 am
My tercel:: 'Everett' Blue 87 4WD Wagon (Rocky 86, recently retired)
Location: Kootenays

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by marlinh »

I was talking to Glet yesterday and I am pretty sure he meant the axle was moving in and out, inboard to outboard. He couldn't get any rotational play gripping it with pliers. I have replaced lots of clunking axles that felt ok, just crappy parts.
User avatar
GLet71
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:09 pm
My tercel:: '87 6-spd SR5 4wd Wagon
Location: Nelson, BC Canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by GLet71 »

Well, the repair went quick and easy, but now every time I accelerate Ron pulls hard to the left. What the hell did I do wrong?
Currently:
Majorette France Tercel 4WD - Fini
Formerly:
'87 6spd SR5 4WD modified Wagon (Ron, the post-apocalyptic summer ride)
'87 6spd dlx 4wd Wagon (Pinkman Got Nuthin', aka Pinky)
'87 Auto dlx 4WD Wagon (Otto, temporary parts car)
'88 6spd SR5 4WD Wagon (Perry, the parts car)
User avatar
dlb
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 7305
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by dlb »

did you just replace the right CV? did you change anything else? are you still getting any clunk from the right side on hard acceleration while turning left?
c_j
Top Notch Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:06 pm
My tercel:: T4WD#4: '86 SR5 6-speed, original Barto lift & steel bumpers & winch, also 95Amp alternator
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by c_j »

Not wanting to admit it, but I changed a CV the other day and forgot to put the nut on the end of the sway bar and boy did she pull to the side and klunk and not like it.
User avatar
marlinh
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 1584
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:15 am
My tercel:: 'Everett' Blue 87 4WD Wagon (Rocky 86, recently retired)
Location: Kootenays

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by marlinh »

Glet, I don't think you did anything wrong. Sounds like torque steer but I didn't think our cars had enough torque to do that. Must be that 4A!
User avatar
GLet71
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:09 pm
My tercel:: '87 6-spd SR5 4wd Wagon
Location: Nelson, BC Canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by GLet71 »

The clunk is gone, only changed the passenger side, and I definitely didn't leave anything undone. Should they be changed in pairs maybe?
Currently:
Majorette France Tercel 4WD - Fini
Formerly:
'87 6spd SR5 4WD modified Wagon (Ron, the post-apocalyptic summer ride)
'87 6spd dlx 4wd Wagon (Pinkman Got Nuthin', aka Pinky)
'87 Auto dlx 4WD Wagon (Otto, temporary parts car)
'88 6spd SR5 4WD Wagon (Perry, the parts car)
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by Petros »

if the other side is good there is no reason to change it. oddly they never seem to wear out evenly, so this is not unusual.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
dlb
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 7305
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by dlb »

greg, i just looked up torque steer and there is some interesting info. here's the page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

and here are the causes listed on that page

"Root causes for torque steer are:[1]

Incorrect sidewall ply design allowing deformation of the tire sidewall.[2]
Asymmetric driveshaft angles due to any combination of
Unequal driveshaft length or diameter
Transient movement of the engine
Tolerances in engine mounts
Body roll
Single wheel bump
Different driveshaft torques left to right (due to wheel bearing or differential problems)
Suspension geometry tolerances
Unequal traction forces due to road surface (µ-Split) in combination with kingpin offset"


in your case, i think the front end lift could be playing a role in the problem due to the change in geometry affecting CV axle angles. it also looks like it could be a bad wheel bearing on the front right side, or the alignment.

it's just so odd that the clunking disappeared after changing the CV. i went through two remans and finally the new GSP axle that you just replaced, trying to get rid of the clunk but it never went away. i can't wrap my head around all of those axles—especially the new one—being bad out of the box. my confusion over that coupled with the above info about torque steer makes me really suspicious of that front right bearing.
User avatar
ARCHINSTL
Goldie Forever
Posts: 6369
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by ARCHINSTL »

The first time I ever experienced torque steer was with my then-new '83 T4WD. Quite a phenomenon; while it was my first FWD car, I didn't think it possible with only 62 HP.
Its replacement, the '86 626 had none of that, even though a much more powerful car (I think 90+ HP). As I recall, the Mazda brochure said something about revised front suspension thingies to eliminate torque steer.
I've only occasionally noticed it on Goldie - guess I'm just used to it (or, more likely, I'm more conservative in driving habits than I was as a kid in his early 40s...).
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by Petros »

check all of the rubber parts of the front suspension, especially the rubber doughnuts that locate the lower arm to the anti-sway bar, and the upper strut mounts, and the sway bar mounts. if one side is bad, when you accelerate it pulls the front suspension forward (it is the front wheels that are driving the car forward), and one side is pulling forward more than the other causing the pulling.

It is possible it is a bad ball joint, tie rod end or steering rack mount, but the movement from these is usually small enough where it is not noticeable. Almost certainly it is one of the rubber parts.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
GLet71
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:09 pm
My tercel:: '87 6-spd SR5 4wd Wagon
Location: Nelson, BC Canada

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by GLet71 »

Oddly enough, this has only started happening since replacing the CV. I have now hit a level of frustration which has me talking to a friend of mine about getting a number of things resolved on Ron, notably removing all aspects of the Barto lift and going back to stock. There just seem to be to many suspension, steering, drivetrain issues to warrant keeping it in any longer. That sucks, because it looks so damn cool all jacked up!
Currently:
Majorette France Tercel 4WD - Fini
Formerly:
'87 6spd SR5 4WD modified Wagon (Ron, the post-apocalyptic summer ride)
'87 6spd dlx 4wd Wagon (Pinkman Got Nuthin', aka Pinky)
'87 Auto dlx 4WD Wagon (Otto, temporary parts car)
'88 6spd SR5 4WD Wagon (Perry, the parts car)
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by Petros »

get a set of front stock front springs for the a/c equipped car, it will give a good ride height, and if you want a bit more put a spacer under the top of the strut tower. Keep the lift to an inch or less and it should make the car behave better. that much lift will wreck the front struts (seal damage since it rides near the end of its travel) and the cv axles because of the large angle it puts on them.

You might also consider using a set of front springs from an '88 or newer celica or all trac wagon, they are stiffer yet only give a little more lift, and it should fit in the stock tercel mounts (you will need the larger dia upper mount of the new springs, but you will need to still use the upper strut mount). Synth has done this mod and likes the results, he found the same problem with the barto lift, it damges the strut seals and cv axles real fast.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
ARCHINSTL
Goldie Forever
Posts: 6369
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: Rockin' Ron...all summer long

Post by ARCHINSTL »

As Petros states - get the AC-car springs. I did this when I still had AC, thinking to fix it. I took off all of the AC clutter and the car is about 1" taller in front.
Of course, the stock height 14" wheels in the larger cavities make it a little wimpy...
Tom M
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
Post Reply