Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

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helipilot77
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 wagon
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by helipilot77 »

Wow 32mpg! That's almost 10mpg better than what I'm getting with the "63" hp 3ac.
. / TOYOTA
./_| |/|/ |]
larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by larry mcgrath »

When I drive this at 55mph ---- on secondary highways---- 245 miles -- it gets 44 mpg. Did this twice staying around 2500 rpm-- I was surprised .
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helipilot77
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 wagon
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by helipilot77 »

Amazing! That's close to what my wife's Volt gets when it's in hybrid mode. I'm guessing your is a little faster than the volt, even though the torque of the electric motor makes it no slouch. It is simply a very heavy modern tank though.
. / TOYOTA
./_| |/|/ |]
JDNightFox
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My tercel:: toyota
Location: CA

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by JDNightFox »

Someone local is selling a silver top 4AGE for $800, is all this effort worth it for the swap? My engine is in good condition and I was thinking about doing a fuel injection conversion on it but the engine swap would be pretty fun too
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by Petros »

if it is a recent rebuilt, or otherwise good condition 4age, $800 is a fair price. If it is needs to be rebuilt, it is a bit high priced. This engine is not rare, came in several models.

it depends what you are after in a swap, there are a lot of issues that have to be resolved to make it fit. It is mostly a bolt on swap, but you have a lot of custom fabrication of external parts, exhaust manifold, wiring harness for EFI, getting alternator to fit, high pressrue fuel pump for the EFI, etc. There are a lot minor issues that need to be resolved, tinkered with, worked out (temp sender, tach, ignition wiring, routing radiator and heater hoses, etc). None difficult, there are just a lot of them to address.

if you just want a more power engine, it is not really worth it. If you want a more modern engine with EFI, and more power as well as economy, and plan on keep it for the long term enjoyment as a daily driver, than it is worth it.

the best simple way to get more power is to install a 4ac with a street performance regrind cam from Delta cams, perhaps a custom exhaust and header (which you would need to do with the 4age swap anway), and perhaps a weber carb. There are a few throttle body injection kits that might be a good bet, but there will also be a lot of messing with it to get it to run good. If you rebuild the 4ac, you can do some nice performance upgrades, like lighten the flywheel, balance everything, clean up the intake and exhaust ports so they are smooth.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
JDNightFox
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My tercel:: toyota
Location: CA

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by JDNightFox »

Petros wrote:if it is a recent rebuilt, or otherwise good condition 4age, $800 is a fair price. If it is needs to be rebuilt, it is a bit high priced. This engine is not rare, came in several models.

it depends what you are after in a swap, there are a lot of issues that have to be resolved to make it fit. It is mostly a bolt on swap, but you have a lot of custom fabrication of external parts, exhaust manifold, wiring harness for EFI, getting alternator to fit, high pressrue fuel pump for the EFI, etc. There are a lot minor issues that need to be resolved, tinkered with, worked out (temp sender, tach, ignition wiring, routing radiator and heater hoses, etc). None difficult, there are just a lot of them to address.

if you just want a more power engine, it is not really worth it. If you want a more modern engine with EFI, and more power as well as economy, and plan on keep it for the long term enjoyment as a daily driver, than it is worth it.

the best simple way to get more power is to install a 4ac with a street performance regrind cam from Delta cams, perhaps a custom exhaust and header (which you would need to do with the 4age swap anway), and perhaps a weber carb. There are a few throttle body injection kits that might be a good bet, but there will also be a lot of messing with it to get it to run good. If you rebuild the 4ac, you can do some nice performance upgrades, like lighten the flywheel, balance everything, clean up the intake and exhaust ports so they are smooth.
I've really had enough with carburetors so I want to fuel inject it either from the Geo mod or doing a complete engine swap. This one has the whole harness with it because the guy was planning on swapping it into his MR2. Although the head is pulled because he got it resurfaced and never put it back together so there's that. I'm not a foreigner to EFI swaps because I did the 4.0 MPI swap on my Jeep so I have a good idea of what to expect.

I plan on using this car for long distance road trips since it's supposed to get better MPG than my Jeep (not currently because of the carburetor, go figure), I didn't like the fact that I could barely do 80 with the pedal to the floor and was getting 17mpg. At the same time, this engine only has 144k miles and doesn't seem to burn oil much, or leak oil. The Geo mod seems simple enough but if it's more worthwhile to get more HP out of a complete engine change then I could do that. I only paid $350 for the car and another $200-ish for a new transmission after all

Biggest problem with the Geo mod is that I'm having a really hard time finding a donor car that has all the parts I would need.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by Petros »

in that case the 4age swap is well worth it. more power, economy, more reliable, lower maintenance, modern engine design and EFI. that is why I am doing it on a project Tercel4wd.

BTW, your tercel should get about 30-34 mpg hwy, and top out much higher than 80 mph. either your engine is shot, or more likely it has problems with the induction/fuel/emissions systems. likely a vacuum leak. Get the engine running properly before you give up on it. the systems are simple and easy to diagnose, but you need to check each one systematically and fix/adjust accordingly. See the FSM for procedure. The old carb has lot of messy emissions systems on it, but it is fairly reliable with minimal maintenance. You just have to learn the various systems so you know what to look for, not hard, just obsolete.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by larry mcgrath »

A little up date on the Rocket--- seems to be snowed in a bit--- weather has been rather shitty this February., still snowing as of right now, long range outlook --10 days-- doesn't look good at all. Spring is coming I hope. Rocket is Hardly visible. :D
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splatterdog
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Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by splatterdog »

Pretty sure Rocket wants to come out and play!
larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by larry mcgrath »

Started the car up yesterday --- let it run for 30 min and busted it out of it's spot without shoveling. The snow fall is nothing but POWDER--- no water content--- won't compact enough to make a decient snow ball,easy to get high centered thou.
406Krom
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My tercel:: 2 1983 Stock 4wd's

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by 406Krom »

Wow! Just read through this thread and this is seriously such a cool build! I live in Missoula I would love to see this car in person someday. Next time I'm in Butte, I'd love to buy you a beer or coffee and take a close look at this car and talk Toyotas, if you're interested. This car has to be so much fun in a MT winter.

Seriously, amazing workmanship!!
larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by larry mcgrath »

Thanks, I'd like to meet up with you, i'm retired so I have a lot of spare time. Larry
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Neu
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My tercel:: 1985 SR5 No Mods
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
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Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by Neu »

I might be taking my latest tercel out to montana later this year. What part of Montana are you in? I spent time in Butte and I'd be visiting that area.
larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by larry mcgrath »

I live in Butte.
tomeitel
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My tercel:: 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD

Re: Larry's tercel gets a 20v Black Top

Post by tomeitel »

Larry, hows the Wagon running for you? Any updates? would love to hear how its been going for you? any issues you needed to re-work and optimize :)
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