Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18)

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Barto
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by Barto »

I have been busy setting up a dealer/installer account with bilstein. and have some great news. I can source rear shocks in a Heavy duty version for tercels once you have done a lift either pathfinder coils or jeep coils. They cost 109.99 each Canadian. If this interest anyone please respond here as I still recieve email from this thread when there is a new post. I have no problem bringing these in but if you don't live on vancouver island I am not willing to deal with shipping . My boss would flip if he knew that I was selling these for that price and spending the time to set up shipping. Just to much time spent for no profit.

If your local meaning vancouver island or lower mainland I can arrange local pick-up or have the shocks drop shipped from my supplier directly to you.

I am still working on front struts and believe that I may have somthing in the next couple of weeks. I have found an insert that will work in the tercel strut-body with camry springs, but the valving is not what I want it to be so. Waiting to here back from bilstein as to wheather they can easily adjust the valving on the next production run.

I'll update this as soon as I here back from bilstein............

Cheers BartO
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deejay1272
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by deejay1272 »

Barto wrote: I am still working on front struts and believe that I may have somthing in the next couple of weeks. I have found an insert that will work in the tercel strut-body with camry springs, but the valving is not what I want it to be so. Waiting to here back from bilstein as to wheather they can easily adjust the valving on the next production run.
Hey Barto - please do keep us up to speed on what develops with this investigation. I'm planning on replacing the shocks/struts in my ride very soon (potentially in the next 10 days). So any info you can share with us would be very useful.

Take care,
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dlb
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by dlb »

i missed your last post till just now bart, that sounds dope. i'm happy with the rear shocks but if you're able to get a better insert to match the camry springs up front i'd be all over that.
SimplyTagg
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by SimplyTagg »

Those Videos on the first page of this thing are... what can I saw... inspiring!
SynthDesign
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by SynthDesign »

Hey Bart,
Did you consider running the AW11 MR2 front shock inserts yet?
I installed them last week on the General. They sit a bit higher and allow the vehicle a bit of sag. Dampening feels a bit more too. Haven't had a chance to drive them yet, the general goes to the frame shop on monday for straightening. Will know in a bit I guess.

Do you think firmer dampening would allow me to go back to the Camry springs which are a bit softer than the Corolla all-trac springs I'm running?
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Petros
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by Petros »

The amount of dampening that is ideal is based on the spring rate, and the size of the impacts. A softer spring would require less dampening or it will be over dampened, which means the wheels will not follow the road surface as well as when proper dampening is used. If you think the MR2 inserts are stiffer than the original, than you would be better off with stiffer springs.

The problem I see is that the MR2 front springs are actually less stiff than the stock Tercel springs (because there is not much weight on the front of a MR2), but if the MR2 was intended for larger road impacts (presuming it is for high speed driving), than indeed the insert might have more dampening, and might be better suited to rough road impacts.

This by the way is why they even make adjustable shocks (dampeners), smooth roads or low speeds means you want less dampening for best handing, ride and control. High speeds or large impacts means you need more dampening. you can not have one shock for all conditions, the idea with an adjustable shock is you can tailor it to your driving preference, or on a race car, to the speed and condition of the track (many race tracks can be patched and bumpy, or can be smooth, and the more tighter turns the lower the average speed).
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SynthDesign
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by SynthDesign »

I've got almost 1200 miles on the AW11 inserts and I'm pretty happy with the ride and dampening. I'm using the All-Trac springs but think I may go back to the Camry springs for a softer ride this summer?

Anyone else runnin AW11 MR2 front strut inserts?

Also, anyone figure out how long to extend the rear swaybar links if you wanna run the bar? It looks like about an inch and 3/8ths.
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scotisha
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by scotisha »

Hi,

I was going to do the rear lift on the weekend with dlb but he mentioned with the size of my tires it might not work as the control arm (think that is the name of the linking bar) will shift the tire forward and it could potentially rub on the frame. Anyone done the rear thunderbird/pathfinder lift with 195/75/14's?

Thanks!

S
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Petros
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by Petros »

putting in larger tires is a complicated buisness. to do it properly you need to remove the springs front and rear, install the new tire size, and than move the suspension though its travel (body on jack stands, jack under the axles or strut arm). You move it though all angles and movements in the rear, and through all angles of steering (full lock to lock movement) to see where it might rub. You can usually alter the fender lip or grind off anything that is within about 1/2" of the tire. without these alterations I would not go that large, raising will not prevent the tire from rubbing when it bottoms. So you can trim off the fender lip, or roll it up, reform any of the metal body that might rub, trim back any plastic splash gaurd that might rub.
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LittleRed4wd
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by LittleRed4wd »

scotisha wrote:Hi,

I was going to do the rear lift on the weekend with dlb but he mentioned with the size of my tires it might not work as the control arm (think that is the name of the linking bar) will shift the tire forward and it could potentially rub on the frame. Anyone done the rear thunderbird/pathfinder lift with 195/75/14's?

Thanks!

S
I know I'm a bit late but just in case you're still wondering about the clearances--

For the rear you'll be fine with 195/75/14's. It gets kinda close, but no rubbing from being too far forward. You'll probably get rubbing at full lock on the fronts but that depends on your rim offset. Here's the rear clearance at full droop with my old wagon on 205/75/14's:

Image


And then with it fully compressed mine would rub a little on the tops of the wheel wells but it was rare that the axle would ever get this articulated while driving: (Different car, same setup as previous pic)

Image

I hope this helps, good luck with the lift!
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Petros
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by Petros »

short work with a heavy hammer at that spot will give you a bit more clearance. if the plastic skirts rub you can take a heat gun to them to alter their shape to give you more clearnace as well.
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by scotisha »

Sweet! Thanks for the info LittleRed4wd. I am going to redo the suspension the next time I go and visit dlb!
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by Petros »

An interesting bit of suspension info. Last weekend I was rebuilding some struts for another list member. I put in new KYB inserts, new front wheel bearings and seals, new ball joints, etc. while I had the springs out I thought I would compare them with an extra set I had from a 2wd Tercel wagon that got parted out. I first compared the length just to make sure there was no sag, and than I noticed that the heavy wire the spring is wound from appeared slightly larger on my spare springs. I took my caliper to them and sure enough the springs out of the 2wd Tercel wagon was indeed heavier about 0.008" larger dia (about 0.2 mm). Odd thing was is that the 4wd struts I was rebuilding came from an A/C equipped car, and the 2wd one did not have an a/c, yet it was the 2wd Tercel springs that have a higher spring rate. The 2wd Tercel weighs much less too, yet it had the heavier springs. I wonder why.

Both of these cars had lots of miles on them so it is possible during previous servicing the springs had been replaced. The T4wd had after market strut inserts in them, so it had been apart before, it may have gotten replacement springs and they put in the lower spring rate units for a car without a/c, but I do not know, it is not normal to replace springs unless they are obviously damaged or have less height.

So there are apparently more than one "stock" spring rate coils available. I put the higher spring rate coils in the struts bound for the '87 T4wd.

A point of reference, the 2wd struts were almost the same, but about 3/4" less height. the upper mount, spring, and other parts were all identical.
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by peculiarodor »

hey barto, if i wanted about an 1" of lift over stock front and rear, could i pull off the cuttingboard spacer method front and rear? not looking for added travel, just clearance. with that amount of lift would the rear sway bar still need to be removed? if you cut coils off the pathfinder springs to reduce the amount of lift, do you still need to do the t-bird shock or can the stock shock work?
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Re: Barto's Ultimate Adventure Wagon Build-up (Update may 18

Post by skyerunner »

Hey peculiarodor, I've been running the Pathfinder/T-Bird combo in the rear on two different Tercels for quite a while now with the sway bar in place. I've never noticed any contact between the axle & bar, nor too much shifting or cracking of the attachments - on my car it only adds about 1" of unloaded height, but more importantly means that it never bottoms or bounces when loaded with lots of stuff. If you need the extra flex for offroading, than take it off.
Anyone else running this setup with the sway bar or have opinions?

Also Scotia, I run 195/75/14's all around and have never come close to rubbing in the rear, but it does rub at full lock in the front. Hoping to do Petros' brake upgrade with spacer and that it will eliminate this, but quite minor.
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