"The Nomad" my 84 sr5

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LeeBiew
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:59 am
My tercel:: "The Humble Bee" - Yellow 83 T4WD SR5 6spd and "The Goose" - Grey 86 T4WD DLX Auto (orphan to be saved)
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by LeeBiew »

I want that T-shirt! Where did you get it?
"The Humble Bee" - Yellow 83 T4WD SR5 6spd
"The Goose" - Grey 86 T4WD DLX Auto (orphan to be saved)
timothygodden
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

LeeBiew wrote:I want that T-shirt! Where did you get it?
Spreadshirt.com
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helipilot77
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 wagon
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by helipilot77 »

Thanks for donating a part of the nomads soul to my Tercel! It was good to meet you and see your soon to be finished project. I apreciate how much thought you have put into it. It is truly going to be a mean machine when you are done.
. / TOYOTA
./_| |/|/ |]
timothygodden
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

Glad to help the part was just sitting around.

Awesome to meet you finally, as I was unable to attend your bbq I appreciate you stopping by and checking things out, nothing like a little tercel love to keep the motivation up.
timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

And for those who have not seen it , pictures :D
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timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

More pictures
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timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

And the engine.
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timothygodden
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

Samq rwd coolant reroute.
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timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

Power steering bracket/ passenger side engine mount
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Last edited by timothygodden on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

Lots more done to including bedliner under the entire car, and lots of little bits painted don't have pics at the moment
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by Petros »

Nice work. You need to consider the way the coolant circulates in the engine. The way the stock 3a engine cooling system circulates in the Tercel is to pull coolant from the lower radiator header, and pump into the front of the engine block around the cylinders, where it circulates and than works it way up though the head gasket, the largest openings are in the back of the head, and the outlet is at the front, where it goes into the top of the radiator. This allows the coolant to circualte from the back towards the front of the head around the combustion chambers.

On the 20 valve transverse installation, the coolant circulates into the block in a similar way, around the cylinders, but the largest holes in the head gasket are towards the front, and the coolant makes it way backwards from the front of the head, and exits out the back of the head and than goes into the top of the radiator. This is different than on the stock RWD installation as on the Tercel4wd. That means to optimize cooling the head gasket should be altered at the water jacket so more coolant will make its way into the head at the back and than circulate forward.

An alternaive would be to use the stock outlet at the back of the head, but than run hose or tubing up to the front where the radiator is located on a Tercel4wd installation. This way the coolant circulates the same direction in the head the way that Yamaha (the designer of the engine) had intended.

Also, there is a risk that you may create a place where air can be trapped within the cooling system, within the head or water jacket since it will now sit at a different angle in the car. this may not be that big of an issue as long as you keep checking and topping up the coolant right after you first fill it, and allow it to run some, to get all the air out. The other thing that could be done is to add a bleed port (just a threaded hole with a bolt in it), so you can remove the bolt and allow the air to escape when you fill the engine with coolant, than replace the bolt of course. I had a car with a pet-cock at the back of the head to bleed the air out where it would get trapped (the factory service manual did not mention this critical part of the cooling system, I had to discover it after I could not stop it from overheating after I changed the T-stat and introduced air into the cooling system).
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

Having read Larry's Build thread, and knowing he had issues with the samq's version one rwd coolant conversion, I originally intended to go with his second choice found by synthdesign: https://technotoytuning.com/toyota/20v4 ... 86-corolla
The website said it was out of stock so I contacted them directly to ask when there would be more. The response:
"Timothy,
Samq engineering's newest kit is far more comprehensive, clean, and cost-effective than what I produce. Until I can come up with something better without directly copying his design, I am no longer producing 20v rwd coolant kits.
Scott
Technotoytuning"

Wait a company recommending me to a competitor when I am attempting to spend twice as much purchasing their kit?
This tells me two things:
1. T3 is a stand up company so I ordered quite a few other items from them that I needed. I like to support honest businesses.
2. I should check out samq and see his third generation kit. http://www.sq-engineering.com/upgrade-p ... n-kit.html
Definitely not what Larry had used initially. And far cheaper than any other kit, after exchange rate at the time it was 320usd with shipping. But I have heard of the reverse flow and so I did my due diligence and this is what I found:

ORIGINAL TRANSVERSE COOLANT FLOW
The water pump pushes coolant into the front of the block around the cylinders and into the head through the holes in the head gasket and then to the back of the head.
cooling_ports.JPG
(Reference this pic for A B and C below)
At the back of the head the coolant can go out two ways, that is A and B.
A is the original transverse hot outlet to the top of the radiator, until the engine warms up nothing really flows this way.
IMAG0626-2132x1200.jpg
B is connected to C by the thermostat housing
IMAG0630-2132x1200.jpg
C leads back to the front of the head by a seperate pathway cast in the head under the intake to head outlet, call this D (no picture) and to the water pump by a pipe and short hose you see in the picture below. And then back through the block and so on.
IMAG0622-2132x1200.jpg
Once the thermostat opens coolant can then travel from A to the top of the radiator out the bottom nice and cool where it then joins the the thermostat housing. (Large diameter pipe head to the right in the pic below)
IMAG0630-2132x1200.jpg
The cooled coolant joins the fray and flows through C to D and to the water pump and so on.

SAMQ CONVERSION KIT
Samq's kit uses the same pathways and flow direction.
A gets capped off.
IMAG0627-2132x1200.jpg
Cold lower radiator inlet and the thermostat get removed B and C stay connected
IMAG0631-2132x1200.jpg
Like this the coolant circulates the same way it would when the thermostat is closed in the original transverse set up.
The new hot outlet now goes out the back of the head through B to C to D (still the normal flow of coolant) to the water pump and upper radiator.
IMAG0625-2132x1200.jpg
The new thermostat housing allows coolant from the lower radiator to flow directly to the water pump and into the block (still along the same original path just joining in after D instead of before C)
IMAG0632-2132x1200.jpg
This setup does alter the location of the radiator inlet and outlet but the flow through the engine remains unaltered. The only real difference is that the C to D passage is now used to get coolant from the back of the head to the upper radiator and water pump instead of getting coolant from back of the head and lower radiator to the water pump.
I do agree that air will be an issue but the same issue would be had with coolant conversion kit. I plan on using a bleeder and burping the system, nothing like owning a 3A to teach you to hate air bubbles.I think altering the head gasket would be detrimental as the flow remains as Yamaha intended.
Pics of 20v head block and gasket. engine front is to the right in all pictures.
images.jpg
rbe1k5.jpg
514680.jpg
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by Petros »

Not sure I followed all of that, but it appears the head has an internal passage for when the t-stat is closed to recirculate the coolant until it warms up, and than after it is warm, directs the coolant through the radiator. That is the modern way to do it, our 3a and the 4a engines have an external by pass tube.

now that I see the head gasket for that engine, it appears they also flow the coolant from the back to the front of the head (head gasket has the larger holes in the back). if the conversion kit maintains the original flow direction through the head, than that would be a good way to go. Altering the internal coolant flow design runs risks, shade tree tuners do not have the same resources those large companies have to first simulate, than test proto-types, and than production engines. So it is best to stay away from it. Sometimes big companies screw up (like they did on the 3a head design developed perhaps 40 years or more ago), but I doubt this 20-valve engine suffers from such short comings. Despite it being considered a high performance engine, it also has a reputation for being a very reliable and durable engine.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
timothygodden
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Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:45 am
My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
Location: seattle wa

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by timothygodden »

SamQ actually ran his version three kit for six months under high stress conditions before putting it into production, not the prototyping ability of Toyota or Yamaha but better then most selling kits.

sorry if the explanation was a little hard to follow. It would be simpler to explain in person with the engine in front of you, little harder with pictures. Next time you are in Shoreline for something you can stop by and scope it out, or I can come out to your place again once it's running, love driving your dirt road in the tercel.

But the original flow through the head is maintained.
The only thing I can think that started the whole reverse flow rumors is all the people I have talked to who think the 20v and the 16v headgaskets are the same part and are interchangeable and have never seen the two compared. A 16v head gasket on a 20v would redirect flow in a way that was unfavorable cooking #3 and #4. A 20v gasket in a 16v will cook #1 and #2.

I ordered my gasket kit from Battle Garage and they sent me a 16v head gasket instead of a 20v thinking they were the same. All the other gaskets and seals were correct.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: "The Nomad" my 84 sr5

Post by Petros »

yup, that is the issue, interesting the 20 valve has the larger holes in the back of the head so most of the coolant flows toward the front. This is how the 3a and 4a head works. btw, all 16 valve heads may not do this, I think the early 4age have the same rear to front flow as well.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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