Turn signal trouble

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gerviswaddell
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Posts: 93
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:12 am
My tercel:: 1985-

Turn signal trouble

Post by gerviswaddell »

Hey there,

Since I have become a member about a month ago, I have done significant work on my 85 DLX, and learned an awful lot in the process!
I finally have the car working, and all seems well, with the exception of the front turn signals. When i purchased the car, one of the front turn signals wasnt working (the interior indicator was showing a rapid flashing to warn of this). Now after much work on the car, neither of the front signal lights are working. The rear signal lights, brake lights, high beams and low beams are all working properly, and both of the signal light bulbs seem fine, also the close connectors dont look corroded either.

any thoughs? where should I look first?

thanks so much folks!

Dave
Highlander
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Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by Highlander »

I'll suggest the easiest first- Did you check the flasher relay? When they go, they usually show a fast blink, then they die. Check the flasher fuse, Do the 4-ways flash them? If they do it's not the wiring. Beyond that, I'll defer to others :?
'83 SR5-299K, -tRusty!
'85 SR5-265K--GOLD
'85 SR5-285K-- GOLD-New engine!
'85 SR5-238K -- Teal-Killed by a DD
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gerviswaddell
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Posts: 93
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:12 am
My tercel:: 1985-

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by gerviswaddell »

No, the fourways do not flash them, the rear turn signals do work...which one is the flasher fuse? where do I find the fuse schematic? thanks again.

Dave.
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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Dave - check the FSM available on this site - check the AutoZone Repair Guide site - did you do a Search? There are a number of threads on this subject.
The driver's side kick panel has the 7.5A fuse for the turns (should be 3rd down on the left and the warns are on a 15A in the corner of the box in the engine compartment.
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trevmountain
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 4wd, 2 inch exhaust

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by trevmountain »

I had problems with my turn signals and went to a local salvage yard and pulled the whole signal, lights, wiper assembly off an 83 terc plugged it into my 87 {apparently all tercs 4wd's are compatable} and was good as new. All you'd need is a steering wheel puller about 10 bucks and a screw driver. Although your problem might be deeper in the electrical this is super easy to do if you can find the part.
zenwalk
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Location: Vancouver BC, Canada

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by zenwalk »

Did you do any work on the car's stereo? If you used the incorrect ground wire (which is easy to do because it's not the colour you'd expect) it can mess with the lights...I think it may be the running lights though, not signal lights. Just a thought.
'87 4WD wagon auto trans. 185,000km
stanrob
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My tercel:: Two 1985 Tercel SR5 4WD, Cal. emission controls, one now a parts car (good engine & transmission, still had full power at 310K), another, a low-rust project car, with 307k miles, from Petros
Location: Wayland, MA, USA

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by stanrob »

Hello friends, I'm diving into this track because the beautiful 85T4D that Petros remarkably procured for me and drove across the country has nonworking front turn signal lights. Unhappily, that's a Massachusetts safety inspection problem.

With Petros's remote help, we've troubleshot the problem down to rusty sockets. The center connects fine, but the ground sides do not. I am vacillating among 5 arguable solutions:

1. Cleaning up the rust, using first vinegar, then bicarbonate paste, and a wire brush that fits tightly into the socket and can be rotated (by hand). My first try at this worked only very briefly. There will be more rounds with tougher chemicals, and I need an electric drill bit capable of buffing off that rust. Even with that, my concern is it doesn't clean the actual grooves the bayonet bulb hook into.

2. Replacing the entire housing. Good luck finding a clean one and getting the old one out.

3. Finding the appropriate tool: one that reaches into the socket, then turns and reaches into one of those grooves and enables filing. Has anyone seen such a tool?

4. Drilling out the socket and securely gluing in a new one.

5. Drilling a hole in the housing and inserting the wires for a new socket, hooking up those wires, and letting the socket simply flop around inside the housing. (A mechanic I never met actually did that with my predecessor 85T4D more than 11 years ago and it worked fine.)

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
jimcrazy
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My tercel:: 1985 4wd 1986fwd 1983 4wd

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by jimcrazy »

i have used these before,,wire brush for cleaning copper pipe
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stanrob
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My tercel:: Two 1985 Tercel SR5 4WD, Cal. emission controls, one now a parts car (good engine & transmission, still had full power at 310K), another, a low-rust project car, with 307k miles, from Petros
Location: Wayland, MA, USA

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by stanrob »

Jimcrazy, THANK YOU for the picture. It's very similar to what I was using, certainly the right diameter, but much shorter, and more potent in that length. Have you used it to remove rust in a socket? It looks like it might not reach the grooves.

I would really like to find a version of that tool that I can spin with my electric drill.
jimcrazy
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My tercel:: 1985 4wd 1986fwd 1983 4wd

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by jimcrazy »

I have used them in sockets,,if there that bad you unplug them and find somebody with a small glass bead or sand blaster cabinet that will clean them up inside
jimcrazy
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My tercel:: 1985 4wd 1986fwd 1983 4wd

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by jimcrazy »

try this take a soldering gun and put a small dot of solder on the side of the bulb,,it is soft and will tighten the bulb in the socket making a good ground
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by Petros »

I wonder if putting a wrap or two of aluminum foil around the base of the bulb might improve the contact so it will work. Just be careful it stay in place so it does not ground to the center contact.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
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stanrob
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My tercel:: Two 1985 Tercel SR5 4WD, Cal. emission controls, one now a parts car (good engine & transmission, still had full power at 310K), another, a low-rust project car, with 307k miles, from Petros
Location: Wayland, MA, USA

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by stanrob »

Thank you for all of your suggestions. Here's my report for the LEFT signal: I tried most of those suggestions, still no light. I confirmed that the center contact was energized and that the shell was grounded, nonetheless no light. I scraped and used vinegar on the shell's rust, still no light. Here's the combination of measures, at least one of which finally made the light work: (1) Naval Jelly, as Petros suggested, plus more reaming with my tool analogous to what jimcrazy suggested; (2) scraping the front of the hook-in grooves with a small Allen wrench; (3) cleaning the front facets of the bulb's hook-in pins with a fingernail file; and (4) spraying contact cleaner.

Now I'm dealing with the RIGHT signal. Different problem(s)! On the right, the center contact is energized just fine, but the shell is clearly not grounded. I could not open the connector behind the bumper, even holding the release lever. The ground is supplied on the engine side by a green wire, which readily pulled out of the connector and tested good ground. It plugs back in smartly, mating its open rectangular end with a flat pin inside. Or does it? Anyway, my task is to test the white wire going to the fixture. In another context, Petros has suggested piercing the insulation with something. I've tried a sewing pin, no dice. My plan is to try to pierce it with a self-drilling sheet metal screw. If it tests open, I guess I'll have to wire around the connector. No vacation for me. Your thoughts welcome.

BTW, that green color disagrees with FSM Appendix E-1 page 2 column 6.
stanrob
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My tercel:: Two 1985 Tercel SR5 4WD, Cal. emission controls, one now a parts car (good engine & transmission, still had full power at 310K), another, a low-rust project car, with 307k miles, from Petros
Location: Wayland, MA, USA

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by stanrob »

CORRECTION OF MY 6-2-17 ENTRY:
Upon further study, I see that I got the wire colors and functions 100% wrong, and the half of the connector I focused on is working fine! The center contact is energized by a light green wire with a yellow stripe ("G-Y" in the FSM); in my report above, I called it a green wire and concluded that it fed the shell. That conclusion was based on my observation of approximately zero ohms to ground. Wrong logic and wrong observation! That bulb is electrically ganged with two others that work, so I should have used a more sensitive ohmmeter, which would show that it was not quite zero ohms to ground. The clincher is operating the flasher, which produces +12 volts on-off on that wire and at the center contact. So the G-Y half of the connector, which I was focused on, is fine.

The other half of the connector, connecting white wires with a dark green stripe ("W-B" per the FSM), has not been messed with. It should be providing ground to the shell. Right now the shell appears several thousand ohms to ground. Despite treatment, that shell still has beaucoup rust, so I'll probably go around again on rust removal. It would be very helpful to penetrate/pierce the connector or the wire to learn its relation to ground, but my penetration/piercing attempts have failed so far.
stanrob
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Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:03 pm
My tercel:: Two 1985 Tercel SR5 4WD, Cal. emission controls, one now a parts car (good engine & transmission, still had full power at 310K), another, a low-rust project car, with 307k miles, from Petros
Location: Wayland, MA, USA

Re: Turn signal trouble

Post by stanrob »

Right hand signal FINALLY solved, so both sides now work. To summarize: as reported already, the center contact was fine, and the shell was several thousand ohms to ground. I never succeeded in my attempts to pierce into the pertinent wire. Today I bit the bullet and cut it. It was perfect ground, so there had to be an "open" at the fixture.

I decided to thread a new grounded wire into the fixture and connect it with the shell, by hook or by crook. I drilled right into the hole beside the socket. That drill sailed right through the shell wire's tube, through its end grommet, to fresh air. I threaded a wire through, quickly discovering that the original shell wire came right out in my hand. Its connection had broken. End of mystery!

Obviously the next challenge was to establish connection between the new wire and the rust-laden shell. If I were equipped to solder, I would solder that wire to the actual bulb's base, way up so it doesn't interfere with insertion. My workaround was to put two strands inside the shell and work the bulb in. End of problem (for now)!

I discovered that a previous owner's mechanic had done essentially the same thing on my drydocked 85TTW.
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