Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

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1stgenyoda
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My tercel:: 1988 SR5 4x4 wagon stock

Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by 1stgenyoda »

So I've tried searching but found nothing, anyways my 6speed transmission on my 83 makes a noise in neutral with the clutch disengaged and in every gear, engage the clutch in neutral and the noise stops. Was reading around and read that is could be the input shaft bearing, so I've found part number RNU070614 at a couple of different places but it says it's for the z50f 5 speed transmissions. Will this part work in my z52f (i think) 6speed transmission? Would like to know before I order RNU070614 and have it not work haha

I havnt looked at the tranny yet and will inspect the throw out bearing when I drop the tranny.

Any thought or help in this is much appreciated, this is my first tercel and would love to make it my daily! Thank you guys in advance and happy driving these little beasts!
83 6speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock..not for long though..
88 5speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock. Parts rig
86 4runner, 31's locked rear
xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by xirdneh »

Look up "Transmission Notes" and check bearing number there, its in "Repair Guides"
Check tranny oil level, topping off might stop the noise.
Yes it sounds to me like input bearing.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
1stgenyoda
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My tercel:: 1988 SR5 4x4 wagon stock

Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by 1stgenyoda »

"They all have a recess cut around one outside edge (53mm dia) and it is used for a retainer (12mm bolt and small plate) to lock bearing in place. The 14mm Thk bearing protrudes aft far enough for the large Idler Gear to make contact and that is probably why the 13mm Thk bearing is used. The Idler Gear is unlikely to hit the bearing because the angled teeth force the Gear aft away from the bearing. I have not seen any sign of interaction on trannys with 14mm bearing. KOYO RNU070614 Available” (Updated 04-08-2014)"

Found this, also found that the 13mm bearing isn't available (just about this quote in transmission notes post) although I didn't find what year transmission this pertains to. Does this bearing work for 83-86 transmissions?
Also can the 14mm bearing be machined down to 13mm?
83 6speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock..not for long though..
88 5speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock. Parts rig
86 4runner, 31's locked rear
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by Petros »

I am reasonably certain the '83-86 2wd Tercel input shaft is the same as the '83-88 4wd, the whole front bellhousing/front diff assy are identical and parts can be interchange, I think even the input shaft itself can be interchanged. the only different might be gear ratio on the input shaft gear, but I doubt it (the ring and pinion ratio is different for auto trans, manual trans, and 2wd vs. 4wd).

Also, that noise you describe can also be caused by the pilot bearing going bad (this is the small bearing in the back of the crank shaft that the tip of the input shaft engages when the transmission is installed to the back of the engine). When the clutch is engaged (pedal up), the clamped up clutch assy steadys the input shaft, but when you disengage the clutch (push the pedal in), the whole input shaft with the clutch friction disk is held in place by the input shaft bearing (in the front of the transmission), and the small pilot bearing at the front of the input shaft. If it is bad it makes noise when you push the clutch in and allow the pilot bearing to carry all the loads of on the front of the input shaft. Also note that this pilot bearing does not rotate when the clutch is engaged since the crank and the input shaft are rotating at the same speed, so no noise can come from it since it is not rotating.

The pilot bearing btw, is much cheaper to replace than the input shaft bearing. I have had new ones go bad in less than a year, so get a good quality one (preferably a Japanese made one). My after market one that came in the clutch kit went bad in less than a year, I lived with the squeal it made until I had some other reason to remove the trans. I installed the original factory bearing that I had removed, and my Tercel4wd has almost 400k miles, still on the factory pilot bearing.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
1stgenyoda
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My tercel:: 1988 SR5 4x4 wagon stock

Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by 1stgenyoda »

The 88 parts rig supposedly has a brand new clutch so I can pull that pilot out and check and see if that's my noise, im going to do a fluid change in the tranny aswell. Tomorrow im changing out the rear shoes and passenger side wheel cylinder, it leaked out all of my break fluid so bleeding the breaks too haha. Lots of work needs to be done to her but I fell in love when I found it. Once I figure out that noise she will be my daily and I'll fix her up little by little
83 6speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock..not for long though..
88 5speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock. Parts rig
86 4runner, 31's locked rear
xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by xirdneh »

the 4 different bearings that have been used on inner input shaft from 83-88 are interchangeable
as far as i can tell the difference in thickness does not matter. the trannys i have taken apart that have the thicker bearing did not show any signs of rubbing against main idler gear.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
1stgenyoda
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:42 am
My tercel:: 1988 SR5 4x4 wagon stock

Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by 1stgenyoda »

Thanks Xirdneh, my buddy and I are swapping a 6.9L deisel IDI into his bronco A.T.M, but after that we are dropping the trans and figuring it out might just swap every thing out... we shall see
83 6speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock..not for long though..
88 5speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock. Parts rig
86 4runner, 31's locked rear
1stgenyoda
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My tercel:: 1988 SR5 4x4 wagon stock

Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by 1stgenyoda »

Ok so new development on the transmission, just lost all forward gears but I still have reverse. It shifts into all forward gears but no movement, and the bearing noise I had before is even worse. What could it be now? Currently the tercel is in my shop and we almost have the transmission dropped but any insight would help alot and would be much appreciated
83 6speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock..not for long though..
88 5speed tercel 4x4 wagon stock. Parts rig
86 4runner, 31's locked rear
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Petros
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by Petros »

the reverse is on its own shaft, with its own gears, and if the main output shaft did not rotate you would not even have reverse. so perhaps the auxiliary shaft the main gear cluster rotates on failed, or pulled out.

The trans has to come out of the car either way, you may not know until you get it apart.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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DanT
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My tercel:: 83 Toyota Tercel SR5 Wagon
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by DanT »

I am pretty sure I have an input shaft inner bearing issue, and am hoping to resolve this with adding more gear oil today. I am hoping that I'm catching this early enough that the situation has not gotten too bad yet. The only times that I have noticed the noise is when the car is very cold, like 15° F, or less, when I'm starting the vehicle. With the vehicle in neutral, if I push the clutch in the noise totally stops, let the clutch out it starts again. After I drive the vehicle around for a little while the noise goes away. This has happened about 4 times now, in the last 2 months. This suggests to me that this really cold gear oil is perhaps not getting to the input shaft inner bearing, but once it warms up and circulates that maybe it is.

I have spent a couple of hours reading about transmission problems on the forum. Everything that I have read suggests that the noise is coming from the input shaft bearing. This 83 SR5 four-wheel-drive has about 265,000 miles on it, and as far as I know the transmission has never been touched. I have owned the car for 21 years . I topped off the gear oil last summer by adding about 1/2 cup. It does have a slow leak at the back exit seal, so I know that I do need to top it off from time to time.

I am heading out to the garage today to put the car up on ramps, and then lift the front on jack stands. I would like to top off the gear oil as best as I can.

My first concern is that I am in upstate New York. My garage is at about 30°F today...and this is one of the warmer days . 90 weight oil is not going to flow very well. I will warm up the new oil that I'm putting in, but it's going to be difficult to warm up that transmission enough to get 90 weight oil to move around in there. Perhaps I should get my electric space heater going underneath that transmission for a few hours?

In the past I have simply removed the plug in the front on the driver's side and filled from there. I have not been turning the bottom plug out 8 turns, but will try to do that today. I know there's another plug on the passenger side toward the back that can be used for filling, but I don't remember if I've been able to get that one off before or not.

It appears that some forum members fill this unit from the front, and some from the back. Not sure if it matters? It seems that perhaps getting at least two plugs off to vent while filling might be important, and waiting for a long time to make sure that the oil has settled. I do have a well-worn FSM for this 83. On page TA–58 it shows to fill from the rear plug. "NOTE: always feel from the transfer adapter filler plug."

Ok, moving on to my biggest concern. If this noise does not go away, or if it gets worse, I am not looking forward to pulling the tranny off this vehicle to replace an inner input shaft bearing. (Bolts and other parts on eastern cars that have been bathed in salt are notoriously unfriendly.)

Apparently the input shaft can be removed and replaced with the transmission in place, by removing the small access cover. I am aware that these input shafts can become pitted and worn (on the surface just in front of the rear bearing) but apparently I could have it machined, or perhaps find one in better condition, and then reinsert it. Am I correct that the inner input bearing is made with rollers that run directly on the surface of the input shaft? Can someone supply a part number, or a link where I could see this bearing?

I saw in one post that Xirdneh suggested that it may be possible to fix an inner input shaft bearing problem without removing the transmission, apparently by repairing or replacing the inner input shaft, and perhaps replacing the bearing also, but that it still might be easier to pull the tranny. I'm starting to wonder if repair without pulling the tranny might be an option for me... if I need to go down that road.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12970&p=100218&hili ... ng#p100218

Hopefully this noise will go away with topping off the gear oil...

Thanks for the advice. This forum information is invaluable.

Appreciation,
Dan
xirdneh
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by xirdneh »

you can replace inner input bearing without tearing tranny totally apart. the tranny has to be out of the car and seperated from differential. i have done it both ways and personally i think is easier to take tranny apart
i am pretty sure your inner input bearing is causing the noise. if it was my car i would keep driving it untill its noisy all the time and gets much louder. i have replaced that bearing on several cars that were pretty noisy and when i removed the bearing it did not seem all that bad. a couple of them had some wear in input shaft bearing surface. that can be fixed by a machinist with a sleeve. that cost me 85.00. i can get you a bearing for 20.00 plus shipping.
i think you have plenty of time to find another tranny. 2wd trannys have same bearing and input shaft and they are a great source of many tranny parts so grab one if you come across one.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
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Petros
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by Petros »

you might try replacing half the gear oil with synthetic gear lub. It flows better in cold weather, though it may make the leak a bit faster (so you have to check it more often). If the cold weather is the cause of the gear noise, that would be a good bet. I would not run all synthetic gear oil, the trans was not designed for it. a 50/50 mixture seems to work well however.

You also might also get around to replacing the rear seal. it is fairly easy to get to, remove the drive shaft and slip off the collar, it will pop right out. Make sure you have the correct size seal before you remove the old one, usually you damage it getting it out. so if you did not verify you have the correct seal, you could be stuck with no way to drive it.

having the correct part number is not enough, you have to take the seal out of the box and compare the new one physically with the old one. I have had the wrong seal in the correct part number box, so until you actually inspect it and compare it, you do not really know if you have the correct seal.

BTW, a minor gear whine is not necessarily cause for concern, I get intermittent gear whine, depending on driving conditions, for several hundred thousand miles. It does not appear to be getting worse, it is just the noise it makes sometimes.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by ARCHINSTL »

T4WD augury?
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DanT
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My tercel:: 83 Toyota Tercel SR5 Wagon
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by DanT »

Thanks guys. All of this information has been extremely helpful. Allowed me to proceed through the project without difficulty.

The system was about 2 quarts low on gear oil. I strongly suspect that was the cause of the bearing noise at cold temperatures. I still have the car up in the air, and I have a few more things to do before a test ride, but unless you hear from me, assume that this issue was resolved.

This was a good learning process. I have attached pictures:
- Drove the car to make sure the transmission was warm. The outside of the transmission case read 85° F when I put it up in the air ( non-contact infrared thermometer). Air temperature 30°F.
- Put the vehicle up on ramps and jacks. Checked slope with a level. Put electric heater under transmission.
- Prepared ahead of time both 19mm and 11/16 sockets and wrenchs by grinding and hand filing. Those suckers fit perfectly on those plugs. Plugs came off easily and warm used oil drained out quickly. SWEET! Thanks for that tip!
- Magnetic drain plugs were covered with extremely fine pasty metal. Very old dirty oil. Extremely fine metal powder. See pictures.
- Preheated 5x1 quart gear oil containers (80-90 GL-5) in pan of hot water on the stove to about 105 F. Made a funnel out of one of the quart containers by cutting the bottom off, and attached this to a 24 inch piece of quarter inch fuel line to fill the front hole. Poured hot oil down this funnel, conveniently located in the engine compartment. Gravity feed made the entire process extremely easy. Kept new bottles hot and kept topping off funnel. This is way, way, way easier than what I used to do it... with the squeeze bottle and quarter inch tube from below. My understanding is that Petros uses a very similar process. Thank you.
- The system took almost exactly 4 quarts. (Suggesting that about 4 ounces, or 1/2 cup remained in the case, if it holds 1.1 gallons.) By leaving the back plug off and filling from the front hole it was rewarding to see that both plugs overflowed at about the same time. Put the fill plugs back in.
- I used factory spec oil, 80-90 wt GL-5, which has always worked in the past, and I didn't want to change to a different grade for the summer. Once I saw how low the oil was, I was pretty sure that just filling with new oil would solve the infrequent noise problem. I think this cold temp noise will be gone. We shall see.

I am embarrassed to say that I change my engine oil religiously every 5000 miles, but never once changed the transmission oil during the 100,000 miles and 21 years that I've owned this car. Honestly, trying to maintain this transmission from information in the FSM, with little squeeze bottles of gear oil attached to tubing from below is challenging and ineffective. The above approach makes the transmission maintenance situation much more reasonable .

I suspect that I did not top off the gear oil correctly last summer, or measure it correctly, as I don't think the rear transmission seal is leaking that badly. I put a container under the car to see how many drips I get in 24 hours.

Great to have information on how to replace the rear transmission seal. Will definitely get that done when warmer temperatures arrive.

I have most of the repair records from the three previous owners covering the other 165,000 miles back to 1983. I see no record of this transmission ever being replaced, and wonder if the transmission gear oil has never been replaced?

Thanks again for all the help guys!

Dan
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DanT
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My tercel:: 83 Toyota Tercel SR5 Wagon
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Re: Tercel input shaft bearing replacement

Post by DanT »

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