Reluctant To Start Immediately

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ARCHINSTL
Goldie Forever
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Reluctant To Start Immediately

Post by ARCHINSTL »

This is new, as for the last 11 1/2 years, she would start in just a few seconds, Summer or Winter, whether every day or after sitting unused for a week.
For the last month or so, however - basically, since my last fill-up - if I've not driven her for 3-4 days (the new '01 S10 has an OMG heater!), it has been taking up to 45 seconds of cranking spurts to get her to start. Once started, she runs fine - no sputtering, etc. Hot or warm restarts that day are no problem. She has a Weber 32/36 and no emissions apparati - but they were installed/removed 8 years ago.
When this first happened, I dumped in an appropriate amount of Lucas Ethanol Fuel Conditioner. It did not have an effect.
Ideas? Again, this is a brand-new phenomenon.
Thanks,
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
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Mark
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My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
Location: Victoria, B.C.

Re: Reluctant To Start Immediately

Post by Mark »

My wagon recently intermittently wouldn't start when cranking first thing in the morning on some days. I could smell fuel from the exhaust after cranking so I assumed there was fuel going to the carb. It turned out there was no spark. I replaced the distributor cap/rotor and the problem went away for a while, but a couple of weeks later it started happening again. It would start fine when I installed a different distributor. The defective distributor passed all tests in the service manual. I assume it was a weak coil (broken down insulation around the coil?) or an intermittently-defective igniter. Anyway, I suspect a spark problem with yours. Maybe try replacing the cap/rotor?.
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Ace
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:57 am
My tercel:: '83 DLX 4WD Tercel wagon 3AC

Re: Reluctant To Start Immediately

Post by Ace »

I used to have a long-standing problem with my Tercel being hard to start if it was unused for a few days. It would start easily if it had been driven in just the last day or two. I wondered if the carburetor bowl was somehow draining down. I resigned myself to cranking it for a few seconds, waiting maybe 5 or 10 seconds, then it would generally start quickly on the second crank.

I also had fuel smell problems which I couldn't track down. Eventually my fuel pump developed a major leak from the crimped seam of the pump body so I replaced it. I also discovered my carbon canister was plugged: the fuel tank had considerable pressure build-up in warm weather and when I relieved the pressure it minimized the fuel leak from the old pump. Normally I prefer to keep everything stock, but instead of trying to rejuvenate the carbon canister I took the whole setup off and plugged or vented the connections as appropriate.

Ever since working on those items, the car has started readily even when it has been unused for a week or more, as often happens. I think I suspected the fuel tank of not properly venting/equalizing because of the plugged carbon canister and this maybe hampered fuel delivery for starting in some conditions. Maybe the carbon canister was absorbing fuel vapor from the carb to the point of reducing the fuel level in the float bowl - maybe if the venting valves were malfunctioning ???

This may or may not have any bearing on your situation. Simply a recall of my own experiences.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Reluctant To Start Immediately

Post by Petros »

my tercel always has problems restarting when it is below freezing, damp weather, and it has sat for more than a day. I give it a squirt of starter fluid to get it to run, after I rev it up for 30 seconds or more, it will act normal.

Odd thing is, it is not just cold, but cold and damp. I went up night skiing last saturday, where my Tercel sat in the parking lot at about 11 degs for about 5 hours. I thought I would need to use the starter fluid, but it started right up. It was clear and very cold, no moisture in the air.

I suspect it might be moisture in the coil, wires or distributor, giving a weak spark. Although the starter spary would point to fuel, but it might not be the fuel supply because pumping the pedal does not seem to help. Once started all the electrical components, and all the contacts, warm up and drive the moisture out. so new wires might help, or spraying all the electrical components with a moisture displacing die-electric spary (like LPS or CRC) would help that, I have not tried that yet.

OTOH, I am wondering if the ethanol fuel blend might be causing a issue, it attracts moisture and when below freezing this moisture that accumulated in the carb would form ice, that my block fuel delivery. once warmed by the heat riser, and the circulating fuel, it would go away real fast. when I need to use the starter spray I have to hold the rpms up until it warms a bit or it will stall out. which is why I suspect it my be related to the crappy ethanol fuel blend. There are few filling stations around here that offer ethanol free gasoline, I have been meaning to try that see if the problem goes away. Fuel economy is better without the ethanol in the fuel anyway.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Ace
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:57 am
My tercel:: '83 DLX 4WD Tercel wagon 3AC

Re: Reluctant To Start Immediately

Post by Ace »

Petros, your comment about ethanol fuel blend reminds me that I switched to using mid-grade gasoline (with lower ethanol content?) in recent years as an experiment. It may have been another factor in making the car easier to start. I believe the higher grade gasoline produces better MPG sufficient to justify the higher price so I have continued using it except occasionally when there is a major price discrepancy between the different fuel grades.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Reluctant To Start Immediately

Post by Petros »

the octane rating does not affect ethanol content, though I have heard some brands will have the premium (high octane) as ethanol free. but you need to find. the octane rating is a measure of the resistance to ping or knock (preignition). it has nothing to do with fuel formulation.

I ran some experiments a few years ago when I was having head gasket problems with a high compression 3ac engine, I ran all premium fuel, and than ran one tank regualar, and I got better fuel economy with the premium to make it almost the exact the same per mile costs. And it made my head gasket last longer too. I finally went to a 4ac engine with lower (closer to stock) compression ratio, but still run the premium, particularly in hot weather. I usually run mid grade in winter when there is little chance of detonation/preignition because of the lower temperatures.

since ethanol has about half the amount of energy per gallon as gasoline (and it costs about twice as much to make, so it is a really bad idea all the way around...it makes corn farmers rich). The ethanol it is running about 10 percent of the fuel, it would reduce economy by about 5 percent. So if you normally get about 28 mpg with ethanol blend fuel, you would get about 29.4 mpg with pure gasoline. Which is about what I found, plus the engine ran smoother and sounded better, more powerful, etc

These old fuel systems were not designed for ethanol blend fuels. And I suspect the moisture the ethanol attracts to the fuel causes cold start problems when it is below freezing too. I will have to find somewhere to get ethanol free fuel next time we have a cold snap and give it a try.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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