HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

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rockthevox
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My tercel:: 85 SR5 wagon

HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by rockthevox »

Ok so idk where i can find a replacement trans for my 85 4WD wagon
so to make life easyer im swapping in a 1990 LA V6 DODGE DAKOTA Motor with an NV3500 (at some point) behind it [ more information on that below the questions]

Question one REAR AXEL

A: whats the REAR axel final gear ratio?

B: what kind of gear oil?

C: How much horsepower & Pound feet of Torque can the stock center section Take up to?

D: dose this center section have an option for a posi limited slip?
a: if So how much is it or is it not worth the money?

Question 2 Replacement Rear Axel

A: can a ford 9 inch rear end fit under there?

B: If not were do i need to make relife cuts?

Question 3 Body and frame

A: can i run wires thru the car thru a factory hole in the fire wall so i can trunk moubnt a batter?

B: Is the body solid enough to hole up to 300+ horse power? At wosrt this V6 Dodge motor is putting out double factory (125HP idk if crank or wheel) or will i have to add connecting rails between frame sections to stiffen up the body?

C: How stiff are the stock coil overs?

D: whats the biggest tire i can fit on the stock spildels? 15s? 17s mayby?

E: what after market brakes are out there for the stock hubs (Disks only) can i fit bigger ones up front and throw the stock fronts out back?




the drive train getting stuffed in

MOTOR
1990 239 LA V6 Dodge DAKOTA motor
Bore and stroke
3.91 X 3.31 inches
(currently is a 239, which at some point the bore will be opened up to 4.040 just like a 340 thus making it a 255)
at wosrt is making 125 Horse power and 180 p.f.t.
Stock bottom end rods and crank
stock heads (which will be ported at some point down the road)
After market exhaust (at some point) [tranny fisrt then the goos parts]
Stock intake tho that might get replaced with a home brewed high raise
AT SOME PIOINT a better cam

FUELING

a Holley 4160 series 600 CFM 4 barrel with custom high rise adaptor for the intake

TRASMISSION
(at some point)

DODGE NV3500 out of a 91 or older 1500 or smaller RAM VAN or Truck

yes im hell bent on making a drag car out of it
with a factory curb wieght of 2400 pounds if your making like 250-300 horse your good
email me at hicterdeckmen@gmail.com if you care to help
any information would be greatly appreacited
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by Petros »

it would be a shame to butcher up an otherwise good Tercel4wd because you just need a transmission. They are out there to find, you just need patience, one will turn up. it would be faster and easier than to do that costly and extensive swap. Go get a Hundi or something not worth keeping to shoe horn in your power pack and drivetrain, no one would miss one of those and you can buy them for scrap metal prices. Any old 2wd TErcel would also be a good candidate, they do not have much resale value either.

to answer your questions:


A: whats the REAR axel final gear ratio?

The '85 has 4.1:1, though it likely will not hold up to that much hp, it is only a 6" diff

B: what kind of gear oil?

uses hypoid 90 wt, or you can use GL-5 multi-vis gear oil.

C: How much horsepower & Pound feet of Torque can the stock center section Take up to?

perhaps 150 hp, over 200 will almost certainly bundle it up. I have seen the larger toyota rear axle get corn cobbed with about 400 hp, that one has several limited slip diff available for it. Not the smaller one in the T4wd.

D: dose this center section have an option for a posi limited slip?
a: if So how much is it or is it not worth the money?

If you can find an all-trac rear axle or the rear axle out of the RWD corolla GTX, it has a limited slip diff for it, and it uses a larger diff. The axle housing are almost the same and will bolt up. The stock rear axle is too small and has no limited slip available for it as far as anyone on this forum knows. But even the larger rear end out of the corolla would not likely last long with that much hp.

Question 2 Replacement Rear Axel

A: can a ford 9 inch rear end fit under there?

sure, you can make anything work with enough cutting and weldling. The issue would be width, but there should be plenty of room under the rear deck for it.

B: If not were do i need to make relife cuts?

Not likely necessary.

Question 3 Body and frame

A: can i run wires thru the car thru a factory hole in the fire wall so i can trunk moubnt a batter?

sure, why not? I think several have done that already.

B: Is the body solid enough to hole up to 300+ horse power? At wosrt this V6 Dodge motor is putting out double factory (125HP idk if crank or wheel) or will i have to add connecting rails between frame sections to stiffen up the body?

It is a unibody construction and it is rather flexy. It can be reinforced without too much trouble once all of the drive gear and engine is out of it, but it would take a fair amount of welding to make it stand up to that much weight and hp.

C: How stiff are the stock coil overs?

Soft, too soft even for performance driving without all the weight and hp you want to add. you would need to adapt something much heaver and stiffer to carry that much extra weight.

D: whats the biggest tire i can fit on the stock spildels? 15s? 17s mayby?

very low profile 16s might fit, but likely it is the 15. There is not a lot of extra room with out cutting, pounding and welding in the wheel wells, particularly the rears, but both will rub if you go even one size larager than stock tires. I have wider 14" wheels and tires, but have the same rolling dia. They still just touch inside the wheel wells if I bottom the stock (soft) suspension.

E: what after market brakes are out there for the stock hubs (Disks only) can i fit bigger ones up front and throw the stock fronts out back?

Good luck with that. I wrote a thread on putting vented front rotors and a better master into it over in the repair guides section. going any bigger would require larger wheels, and the risk of rubbing. Also, the rear brakes have no real viable option except perhaps adapting corolla all-trac rear brakes (should be a bolt up change), but really the front and rear suspension and the brakes are rather soft and flimsy for what you are talking about. going with the vented front disks will not alter the front to rear braking ratio so it will be have the same but with better stopping power. If you adapt other larger brakes you will need to install an adjustable front to rear brake bias valve.

There are likely better cars to start with, and again it would be a shame to ruin a good Tercel4wd with such a radical and Frankenstein set up.

If your Tercel4wd was all rusty and beat up, than this would be as good a fate for it as any, but if the body is decent, and the rest of the car in otherwise working condition, lets find you a good transmission. Do you have the old one from it? it might be able to be rebuilt. ship it to us and we can likely get it all fixed up for you so you can get the Tercel4wd back on the road.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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rer233
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Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by rer233 »

What Petros said- would be a shame to hack up a decent T4 (esp if it lived a good portion of it's life in FL- no snow, no salt therefore no rust). Find a tranny or sell it to someone who will (could be me if it were't so damn far away- I'm in MD.)
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)
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NWMO
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Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by NWMO »

rockthevox,
yes im hell bent on making a drag car out of it
with a factory curb wieght of 2400 pounds if your making like 250-300 horse your good
Mostly purists here, so I'm not sure how much help you will receive, great info from Petros. I'm looking at a minimal lift and hoping to get some tall 14's on my car, seems like you can't go much past 25" diameter or so on the rear w/o tubbing it. When you do tub it, consider the stock set-up includes stabilizer rods that keep the rear end horizontally stable (limits front/back movement as it sits on springs/shocks). These fall about 6" or so outside the subframe and may pose limitations to how wide of a tire you could run. Honestly, I would expect a fabricated frame/suspension set-up on the rear to allow the Ford rear end or something similar.

As to the strength, my knowledge is pretty limited. I will however share two things:

1) There are some challenges with rust on these cars and the sub frame is not immune. Just beneath the front seats seems to be a bad spot, where the front end bolts to the sub frame can have damage and where the rear stabilizers bolt on are often soft/gone on the outer part as well.

2) I've watched quite a few videos of these cars rock climbing, etc. and when in good repair, these cars are pretty rugged. It should also be pretty easy to slip some channel iron over the sub frame where needed (my planned repair in bad spots).

Good luck with your build.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by Petros »

if we can find a rust bucket for a frankencar conversion, I would not have any problem with that. That would be the best way to keep it on the road, since you would have to cut and weld so much of the chassis to make all that new hardware fit under the body, I would not think the rust would be an issue. the chassis would have to be strengthened anyway if you add that much power to it, even without rust it would be rather flimsy and need reinforcement.

Also, it would be intereting to have the rear fender wells cut out and big flare put on it to accomodate larger tires. I have been thinking about that for some time, it would take a lot of cutting and custom fabbing. If it was rusty around the rear wheel wells, than you have a reason to cut it out and make it "better".

BTW, I doubt it would still weight 2400 lbs after all those mods, even if you stripped out the interior.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
rockthevox
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My tercel:: 85 SR5 wagon

Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by rockthevox »

well im not against sell the old girl as hard for me as that would be
grew up in the back of that thing man so i'd have to get a car in trade for in some way to quatifie the trade
got my eyes on a 71 demon here in town and i would only sell to a purist who would keep the drive line mostly stock
if anyones intrested its a price for the demon thats keeps buggging me
its about 4500$ which isnt that bad so i'd have to sell the toyota for about 5K for fudge room for onther parts
the demons a bit of a rust bucket (318 auto car) but is in otherwise good condistion save for some body rot
that 318 i KNOW i can build into a 400 pony sleeper but for fuel economy i'd probly swap in the V6 that i have thats newer and has a facotry roller in it

I WILL ONLY SELL TO A PURIST
car has VERY little rust.
the hood is the wosrt of it and thats mostly surface rust
email me
hicterdeckmen@Gmail com
rockthevox
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:27 pm
My tercel:: 85 SR5 wagon

Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by rockthevox »

might trade for the right car
rockthevox
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My tercel:: 85 SR5 wagon

Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by rockthevox »

btw could i swap the old fried 4x4 trans in favor of a coralla rwd trans?
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: HELP! Drag car build 85 4WD tercel out of sebring FL

Post by Petros »

not really, unless you do some cutting and welding of the tunnel.

the engine on the Tercel sits high so the front diff can be under it, the trans on both FWD and 4WD model, has an input shaft above the front and rear output shaft, the input uses an idler gear to the lower main shaft, so the rear output shaft (and the height of the tunnel) is below the crank shaft height of the engine. Most RWD cars, and their transmissions, have the cranks shaft height the same as the rear output shaft. So you either have to lower the engine, or cut out and raise the tunnel. both have serious consequences to make such a large change to the chassis.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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