Asian A3 Carburetor

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FarmerJack
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5

Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by FarmerJack »

I own a 1984 Tercel 4WD stick shift wagon which I took to a repair shop to have the carb rebuilt. Normally, this shop is supposed to be quite capable in rebuilding carbs, auto transmissions, etc. Although, I doubt that they have much Toyota repair experience and mostly work on pick-up trucks. However, they have had the car for quite awhile and have finally returned it to me in an unusable condition. It will start only with the use of ether. Once it starts, it is necessary to feather the throttle up and down or it will die. After feathering for several minutes, it is possible to get the RPM's up to 4000 or more and after running it at that speed for about 5 minutes, it will run but at a fast idle speed and rather roughly. After idling for several minutes, it will die and not restart without ether.

The shop did purchase a rebuild kit and did replace several other parts. They also cleaned out the fuel lines and the gas tank.

I keep this car for use on my farm, so I do not need to license it and do not need all of the pollution controls.

I need some advise on where to go from here.

Jack Fritz St. Louis County, MO
xirdneh
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by xirdneh »

There is a YouTube video on taking carb apart and putting it back together "Toyota tercel 4wd " for some key words . I am guessing they left something out .
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
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Gottolovem
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by Gottolovem »

I can send you a complete used carb from my collection?
Would probably be better then what you have now.
I also know a "toyota" carb specialist in CA i have had good luck with the work they have done for me :oldgeek:
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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Jack -
Welcome to the Club!
Are you the John who lives in St. Ann or the one who lives in Creve Coeur?
I live in Kirkwood and would be happy to take a look at it later this week (finishing up timing belt and other stuff earlier on Goldie).
From whence did your T4WD spring?
PM me.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
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FarmerJack
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by FarmerJack »

Tom M:

I am the one who lives in Creve Coeur. I would be delighted to have you look at my Tercel except that it is located at our farm in Gasconade County. It is not licensed or insured, so I cannot drive it off of the farm. I would have to put it on a trailer and bring it in. I bought the car probably roughly around 1987 as a guess, as a used car. Needed a 4 wheel drive to negotiate the rugged hills on our typical Ozark farm near Owensville. I used it for many years until the carburetor got so bad that it would no longer pass emissions inspection. Then I moved it out to the farm but it got to running so rough that I could no longer get it started. Took it to a local highly touted mechanic who tried but could not figure it out. Apparently, he is good but works mainly on US made pick-ups. He rebuilt the carb and put in various other new parts but could not get it running well. If you like to fish for bass, bluegills & channel cats, I would be glad to take you out there for a look-see. I have lived in Kirkwood as well, & Glendale & Des Peres.

Jack
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Jack -
While it would not be inexpensive, the best bet might be to chuck the Aisan and install a Weber 32/36 as many of us have.
I did this in 2008 after fighting the various emission-related gizmos and vac tubing. Plus, in St. Louis, we no longer have to pass emissions.
The only emission item I still have on the car is the cat conv; everything else has been removed.
It's sort of a plug-and-play and considerably easier than futzing with the OE carb and its related emission devices. I'd think your local mech would have no problem installing this.
The only other item you need beside the carb is a fuel adjuster, as the mechanical fuel pump puts out too much pressure for the Weber. Some of us have also installed a fuel pressure gauge, but some have not.
Here are a few pertinent links, some with photos:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1112&hilit=weber
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5857&hilit=weber
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6009&hilit=weber
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5841&hilit=weber
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4749&hilit=weber
Hey - now all you have to do is pass the safety inspection and you could use it to drive to town!
Tom
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"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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Petros
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by Petros »

welcome to the forum,

the factory carb works well if kept clean, all the emissions and related stuff working properly, and it is adjusted to run properly. It is a fairly simple system, despite the number of vac lines, it is easy to diagnose and keep working if you systematically work down the check list of system checks in the service manual.

I would not advise just pulling out all of the vac systems, that carb is designed to work with the vac operated equipment, and much of it actually helps economy and drivability. If you go the costly weber route, you can remove all of the vac operated equipment, but if you keep the factory carb, much of it has to stay in place to get it to run properly. I have owned and driven both factory carbs, and Tercels with weber carbs, for both extreme heat and cold, the factory carb is much more drivable, and usually more economical.

It is not difficult to keep the factory set up working properly, but it does take some patients and careful testing to isolate the problem.

Likely the carb got messed up, but do not discount the possibility there is something else messed up that caused it to stop running properly. many times someone does not diagnose the problem, assumes it is the carb when it might be somewhere else in the fuel or emissions system, and they find after they change the carb they still have the problem, or they create new problems trying to fix a carb that did not need fixing.

That is why it is very important to ALWAYS diagnose the problem, BEFORE you try and fix it. you might "fix" the wrong thing, and than waste a lot of time and money.

Good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Petros wrote:... for both extreme heat and cold, the factory carb is much more drivable, and usually more economical.
Two different opinions... Taking 30+ year old carb/fuel delivery/emissions systems into consideration, I would disagree with the former conclusion on driveability and have found a very slight decrease in mileage - which is eminently acceptable, given the travails I faced with the OE setup for 3+ years.
Petros wrote:It is not difficult to keep the factory set up working properly, but it does take some patients and careful testing to isolate the problem.
Do not forget - Jack's car (not Jack) is in a rural area of MO, where some may not have heard of a Tercel - unless one flies overhead. This is not a snide remark by a "city boy," but just that, as he states, a locally competent mech is simply unfamiliar with '80s MIJ stuff (obviously this holds true for current City Toy wrenches as well).
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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Jonymoto
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by Jonymoto »

Just a suggestion, why not take up Gottolovem's offer of his secondhand carb or send the existing carb to his carb guy in CA?
When you lose, don't lose the lesson - The Dalai Lama
FarmerJack
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by FarmerJack »

Thanks guys for the various suggestions. I guess that I was hoping that the old Tercel would be much like my old 1948 Ferguson tractor. I go out there and put the ignition key in and often forget to pull the choke out; push the starter and she coughs & sputters, blows blue smoke for a few minutes and then is ready to brush hog all day. Of course, the old Fergie does not have all of the modern pollution controls; has a manual choke, mechanical brakes, etc. Its one modern feature is the 3 point hitch invented by Harry Ferguson back in the 30's and stolen by Henry Ford. Was hoping that the Tercel would perform in a like manner but not to be. Anyone interested in buying a slightly used Tercel?

Jack
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by ARCHINSTL »

http://www.nationalcarburetors.com/webe ... etors.aspx DGEV $299 - Ask for low height filter.
Holley 12-805 fuel pressure regulator $31-40, depending on source.
A few bucks for fuel hose and clamps.
Incidentally - did your mech install a new fuel filter? He should have.
That's it.
PM me.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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marlinh
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by marlinh »

I would definitely take the offer of a good used carb. That will eliminate a lot of guess work and probably get your car back to running. You should be able to do it yourself.
FarmerJack
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by FarmerJack »

Guys:

Thanks for all of the thoughts and advice. If the car were here at my home, I would work on it. However, being as it is 65 miles away at our farm, I think that I will put it up for sale. I believe that it has only about 115, 00 miles on it but that I will have to check. The engine and transmission are in great shape but the carb rebuilder could never solve that problem. I just do not have the time or facilities in the country to spend much time on it.

Jack
FarmerJack
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by FarmerJack »

Attn: Tom M. at ARCHINSTL.
Tom:

Now that the heat here has subsided, I am planning to get back out to the farm and check out the Tercel. I could accept your offer and put the car on a trailer and bring it to to try and figure out the carb problem. However, unless you are in the auto repair business, and having myself once lived in Kirkwood, I realize that the neighbors would not appreciate having the old clunker around.

Even my brother who owned one very similar except that it was 2 wheel drive suggested that I give up on it because of the complexity of the carb. He is a skilled amateur auto mechanic and a journeyman tool and die maker with a mechanical engineering degree who once partially designed the new linear accelerator on the atom smashing ring when employed at the Fermi Lab. I am certainly not in his league on brainpower and usually take his advice.

Funny story about my brother. Years ago, he drove his Tercel 2wd wagon out to four corners country to Monument Valley. If you have ever been there, you would know that there is a lookout above the valley with a handrail around where quite a few people gather to observe the valley below. In those days, you could drive your car down into the valley to get a closer look, which he did. The roads were not much, just red dusty sandy stuff. And as you could imagine, getting down was no problem but getting back up with that front wheel drive heavy back end wagon was not so easy. He made three attempts to get back up. Each time, he went back further into the valley to try and get as much of a running start as possible. Finally on the third try, he just barely made it back to the top to a thunderous ovation from the crowd of observers above.

FarmerJack
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Petros
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Re: Asian A3 Carburetor

Post by Petros »

good for you! The Tercel is a very reliable car, but consider all the emissions controls and other compleity required by the federal government, its reliablity is even more remarkable. All of those systems have to be maintained as they age, rubber gets dry and brittle, moving parts will wear out, etc. It is not that complex, you just have to take the time to learn each system. Each system is simple and easy to check and fix, it is just there is a lot of them. Often repair shops who are unfarmilar with the systems will not want to take the time to review the service manual, and make a mess of the vacuum lines.

Just use the factory service manual as a guide, and check that all of the different system vac lines are routed properly, and each system is operating properly (all have simple tests). Once you locate them all of the system checks and vac hose routing only takes about 30 to 40 min to perform. You also unfortunately likely have a mess up carb, no way of knowing what is wrong with it, and how they may have also mis-routed your vac lines on top of the messed up carb.

install the offered used carb, go though each of the vac lines to verify they are routed propertly, not leaking and each end is connected. Do that and it will likely start and run just fine after a few adjustments. If not, than work down the list of symtoms and suggested fixes and tests in the servcie manual. BTW, you can down load the service manual off of this site for free, the link is at the FAQ section.

Many years ago, stupid me, I thought I would save time, and have a local repair shop replace a head gasket on a '79 toy pickup with the 20r engine. It has similar carb (just bigger) and similar emissions systems. the Boneheads running the shop said they could do it, when I picked it up they said it was running "good", it too was undrivable, I turned it around and left it there for them to sort out. next day it was marginally better, I drove it home and found 4 or 5 vac lines dangling loose, and several more plugged in the wrong place. So I went through getting them all connected properly (only took about 15 min), and I could drive it. Lesson: do not take older cars to mechanics that have no knowledge about the systems on them. Never again, not worth the trouble. for the amount of time wasted with these geniuses I could have saved $500 and had it done in one day, rather than the weeks they spent messing up my truck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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