Burning oil.

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BaileySims
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My tercel:: 1983 Tercel SR5 4WD
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Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

Just need some verification of what I would need to do. Seems to me like it is the rings for sure. No smoke on start up but only while accelerating. I'd rather pull things apart and replace what needs to be replaced rather than using any additives. When i first put this thing together a few years back, I didn't replace 3 pistons, at the time all which had good compression. All are near the same compression to date, but I believe the rings are failing on the 3 that I did not replace. While changing out the Pistons, if that's what I have to do, what else should I change while in there? Thanks.
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Mark
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My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
Location: Victoria, B.C.

Re: Burning oil.

Post by Mark »

Every time I've burnt oil on acceleration, it's been the valve guide seals. They're pretty easy to access on the Tercel. You don't even have to remove the camshaft. You just need a valve spring compressor.
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BaileySims
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

That's what I like I hear. Although I have no problem blowing the motor apart, it's nice to know that things just got a lot easier for me . I have 2 sets of valve stem seals in my tool box and I'll be able to change them out this weekend. Will report back! Thanks!
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Mark
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My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by Mark »

My only tip is to plug the oil drain holes with rags or something when you're doing this. The little valve keepers (tiny, metal half-moon things) like to fly off when you're removing them. If one fell down an oil drain hole....
One of mine flew off and landed in my gravel driveway. I didn't have any spares on hand and it took me forever to find it (I think I used a magnet).
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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by ARCHINSTL »

This is OT, but...
I, too, have a gravel driveway. When I am working on Goldie, I always have a large piece of cardboard under her to catch my clumsiness.
I also bought one of these years ago, which is one of my best tool purchases!
http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-Telescop ... /202103569
I'm adding this to the Tool Forum.
Tom M.
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T4WD augury?
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BaileySims
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

i just got finished replacing all the valve guide seals and to no avail, the beast still smokes. :( Could it be the valve guides themselves or the pistons/rings? I have yet to run a leak down test. I will have to go buy a leak down kit tomorrow and verify. I would like to just put another head on all together, it is pretty trashed, the only problem with that is finding one around here.
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Mark
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My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by Mark »

I'd verify that the oil isn't coming from the PCV system first. There's a hose going from the valve cover to the intake manifold. It shouldn't be full of oil. The other hose with the PCV valve in it goes to the bottom of the air filter housing. I'd check to see that there isn't lots of oil in there (the air filter housing). When I changed my valve guide seals, it still smoked for the first little bit, but it cleared up and stopped maybe the next day. I think there was still oil accumulated in the intake manifold that needed to burn off.
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SirFoxx
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My tercel:: 1981 Toyota Tercel w/ 7age

Re: Burning oil.

Post by SirFoxx »

I had the same issue with my tercel. Burned oil real bad, but had barely any noticeable smoke. Replaced the valve seals, still smoked. I then burned a valve, so I ended up taking the motor out to refresh it. Turns out the oil scraper rings were gunked up with carbon, which was preventing them from moving.

I ended up honing by cylinders with a 3" dingle ball hone, cleaning the ring grooves, and replacing the rings. Now it doesn't burn any oil!

If you don't want to do what I did, you need to use seafoam or similar product that will try to degunk the cylinder ring grooves.
1988 DLX 4wd Tercel Wagon w/ weber (RIP)
1985 4wd Tercel SR5 (RIP)
1986 Base 2dr Hatch (RIP / PARTS)
1986 DLX 4wd Tercel Wagon with ???
1985 DLX 2dr Tercel Hatch w/manual swap
1981 2dr Toyota Tercel w/7age (RIP)
1981 3dr hatch Toyota Tercel w/Turbo 4AGE
1981 3dr hatch Toyota Tercel SR-5
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BaileySims
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

Oh boy. That's what I was thinking when it had first started smoking. Ahh. Well, I guess it's time to start collecting parts!
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BaileySims
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

Well...

I guess my only option is to have to block honed and put in bigger pistons?

I really wanted this to be a simple one day build so I could drive it back to work monday. Damnit.
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BaileySims
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

Also; is the reason the wrist pin slid out of place the fault of the connecting rod? I really don't like that they have to be pressed in without retainers holding it in place. I just left the block at the machine shop and they said they will call me tomorrow to see if they can actually fix it by boring and honing it, worst case scenario they have to sleeve it.
:/
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by Petros »

I ran across this situation once before, but the wrist pin has been wearing a deep groove in the side of the cylinder. It was the #4. It could not be saved without sleaving the bore. Cheaper to get another short bock at picknpull for about $100. but a lot more work than just rebuilding the head, which was the original plan.

pressing in the wrist pin is simple, fewer parts, no movement between parts, etc. but when this happens it makes me think it is not as reliable as one would think. older cars used to have a bronze bushing at the small end of the connecting rod with a "floating" wrist pin, held in place with spring circlips. I have seen the circipls fail too, on high reving engines.

In the race cars we built for Nissan, we used Teflon plugs at each end in the bore of the wrist pin, sized to it centered the writs pin in the piston. This seemed to be very reliable in a very high RPM race engine. But I do not know how long they would last, the race engine at most had to last 1000 miles (usually much less), so we did things on it you would not do on a street car (like use very thin, soft iron rings so they seat quickly...they would not last very long in a daily driver). So do not use "racing rings" in a street car if you expect them to last a long time.

I have seen the Teflon plugs you can buy for popular engines, hot rods, etc. We had to make them for the Nissan engines, seems they should hold up long term. Most important was that the wrist pin was fully floating, no positive attachment, just held in place with the plugs in the ends of the wrist pin bore. We had to over bore the small end of the rod and install a bronze busing in it so the steel write pin would not gall.

Doing a number of tests I determined that the free floating wrist pins rotated at an average speed of 25 rpms in the racing engine. It was also more durable since the rotating wrist pins would not load the same point on the wrist pin as when it is fixed in place. Clearance in the bushing was critical, required exactly 0.0008" oil clearance as I recall, and an oil hole in the neck of the small end of the connecting rod. so splash oiling would get to the bushing.

A lot of effort to try and solve a problem that is rather rare.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
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BaileySims
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by BaileySims »

i would opt for a used block, but tercs around here are non existent. the machine shop just called now and said that .40 over fixed the gouge.
my only problem now is finding .40 over pistons/rings. there's only one piston with rings available on Rock Auto and I don't know when they will ever have any more. Is there somewhere else I could look? Found a set of DNJ 40 over set for $999 on eBay. Something is obviously wrong with that pricing.
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SirFoxx
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My tercel:: 1981 Toyota Tercel w/ 7age

Re: Burning oil.

Post by SirFoxx »

Generally if the price is like that, it's cause they are out of stock and dont want to take the ad down

If you can't find a 3a, you might want to consider a 4a commonly found in mid 80's Chevy Nova's, and Toyota Corollas. Heck, you can find 4a bottom ends in Corollas and geo prizms built from 93-97. You'd just have to swap your head onto it. Or you could go the 7a route like I did, but it's just a bit more involved to get it ready to swap in a Tercel. Just depends whats available to you, and how long you can afford to keep your Tercel out of commission.
1988 DLX 4wd Tercel Wagon w/ weber (RIP)
1985 4wd Tercel SR5 (RIP)
1986 Base 2dr Hatch (RIP / PARTS)
1986 DLX 4wd Tercel Wagon with ???
1985 DLX 2dr Tercel Hatch w/manual swap
1981 2dr Toyota Tercel w/7age (RIP)
1981 3dr hatch Toyota Tercel w/Turbo 4AGE
1981 3dr hatch Toyota Tercel SR-5
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Petros
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Re: Burning oil.

Post by Petros »

there were several manufacturers of .040" over 3a pistons a few years ago, seems someone should have them.

or you can go the 4ac route.

keep searching.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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