civic wagon vs. tercel wagon...

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
3A-C Power
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Post by 3A-C Power »

You would really have to watch out for JACKKNIFING with that towing arrangement! I might tow my new project car around with a home-made towbar, but after the engine and tranny are removed.
tercel4wdrules
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My tercel:: None
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Post by tercel4wdrules »

Is it possible to tow a Tercel using an old Toyota p/up truck? If you go pick up an auto transport or towing dolly you'll have to get an F-250 at least otherwise they won't rent it to you.
2015 Honda Fit EX "Malachi"
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takza
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Post by takza »

Adelard of Bath wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of a tiny light vehicle getting pulled around by a trailer much larger and heavier than tow-vehicle...blah! Like, yer driving, and a gust of wind pushes the trailer around...which yanks the Tercel around and the Tercel is only 2250 lbs....and then don't get me started on "panic-" or "emergency-situations"

I don't mean to tell everyone how to tow, though.
Good chance that the car & trailer weighs more than the Tercel.....only thing that might save the day is the 4 wheel drive? I haven't towed much........
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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3A-C Power
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Post by 3A-C Power »

The 4WD won't help you in a braking situation, where you're likely to run into trouble with oversized loads. In terms of capability, we know the Tercel frame can handle 3000 lb because that's what the European towing capacity is. In terms of safety however the towing capacity reflects whatever country's safety standards as well as the vehicle strength. It figures that European figures are higher, just compare the Euro bumpers with N.A. bumpers!
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

Hum !
You're talking about me ...

Our Tercels are registered for a towing capacity of 1350-1800Kgs (2980-3980Lbs).
Empty= 1000Kg
Full= 1500Kg
Full+ trailer = 2850Kg
You may trail heavier with lower speed limits and a "plus" driving licence.

My car-carrier is just 475kg (1050Lbs) empty. With a Civic on it I towed about 1575Kg (3475Lbs)

2850-1575=1275
1275-1000=275Kg (607Lbs)
607Lbs for two persons, the tool box and some bits.

This means that I was just on the weight limit. No low speed limits for this trip.

Of course, the heavier and the most powerful is the tractor the easier it's to drive. Anyway the Tercel tows far better than any other 1-Ton car . You have to drive carefully but the engine isn't powerful enought to reach dangerous speeds in such conditions.

Each year I drive the half of my mileage with my car-carrier or with my caravan. I'm a bit used. Abelard, I sword you the Tercel tows far better and far easier than any other small car I'd ever driven. Test by yourself !

To compare with an american car you could know, I also own a 4000Lbs (empty) Pontiac Trans Sport (with a turboed Quad-4 engine). It's (far) more powerful in hilly roads, but it's not really safier than our Terk' in downings... !
And in the mud/snow ? Whitch wins ?
Typrus
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Post by Typrus »

Hehehehehe... I towed a Civic 4x4 out of a small ditch in a recent snow.. Before I was introduced to Mr. Hillside.
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

RIP 04-05- 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

1st Terc- 1987 Tercel SR5 4wd Wagon 6-speed, Sadly cubed

1985 Tercel Standard 4wd Wagon w/ 3-speed auto, Living a happy life in Boulder last I knew
Adelard of Bath
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Post by Adelard of Bath »

I saw a Pontiac minivan the other day, and the license plate was on the rear hatch..but then I noticed (for the first time) that there was this long oval shape on the rear bumper...the perfect size and shape for a euro-plate! and I was amazed! That's good planning to make it ready to export like that, but I never once imagined that people in Europe would be driving dumb-ole Pontiacs around?
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

dumb_ole ??????????????

The americans bought few "dustbuster" Chevy APV or Pontiac transsport because they weren't "truck-alike" enought for them. The prefered Caravan/Voyager Or Aerostar with solid axles, leaf springs, thursty iron engines and spinning auto trans.
GM made efforts to "europeanize" the APV and got a good success. (regarding to the small dealers net).
"Our" Transsport had the dual-fuel Quad-4 engine from Beretta/Achieva/Calais etc with a 5-speed manual from Getrag, good shocks, good bushings, good tires, big brakes and so on.
I added a turbokit to mine and I confess it's now a very hypocritical machine ;-)
It looks like a soccer-mom minivan but is able to spin the wheels on 3rd and drive flat-out "with the needles in the glove box"...
It's problems: It's head is still so feeble and in snow days I far prefer my Tercel !

In Germany (no speel limit in this country) you can find several Transsport with the supercharged 3.8 like the Parkavenue had... Certainly better than an Aerostar with it's governor set at 149Kph !!
hornett22
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Post by hornett22 »

i tow cars with toyota trucks all the time.mostly with the 4runner which has a built 22re.u haul will rent you a tow dolly if your hitch is rated for 3500 lbs. with a trailer you will be adding a lot more weight.make sure you have a good clutch.you may want to invest in a heavier centerforce flywheel.
there is only one jeep.and that is one too many!
MootsMan
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Post by MootsMan »

To the best of my knowledge, there was never a manual transmission option available on either the Lumina APV or the Pontiac or Oldsmobile versions here in the states.
1984 Tercel 4wd Dlx. - 192K miles.
1985 Tercel 4wd SR5 - 185K miles (not running)
1986 Tercel 4wd Dlx - 210K miles (dd)

Only 3 to go for the whole set ! lol
clbolt
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Post by clbolt »

I've owned a couple of the 2wd Civic wagons, an 84 Wag-O-Van (the utility model), and an 85 deluxe wagon. I learned a few interesting things about that generation. I've also owned 2 Civic hatchbacks from the same generation.

First, there's a fatal flaw in the engines on those Civics. The oil restrictor to the camshaft is threaded, and plugs easily. There's only one oil passage to the head, so when it plugs, the cam spins dry in the head till it snaps. By the time it does that, the cam and head are shot (not to mention the bent valves), and good heads are gard to find. Techs I know will use a 1/8" drill bit to wipe the threads out of the oil restrictor and open it up a bit, but you have to pull the head to get to it. If you go through this, use only synthetic oil.

Long before you reach that point, the rings will likely have lost their tension, so the car will be an oil-burner. My last Civic wagon was a 60k one-owner car, and would burn a quart of oil in an hour if you left it idling. It was worse on the road. I assume it had been overheated, but every one of my Civics was an oil-burner.

As a result of those problems, I've learned to swap an engine in a Civic wagon in about 6 hours. I know where the hidden bolts are, and have learned to work my hands around the engine compartment. I've also learned that a hammer thrown across the yard will absolutely find the hood you moved over there to keep it safe.

In the 84-87 Civic wagons, 2wd and 4wd engines are not interchangeable. The internals and head are the same, but the blocks are different. 2wd engines are easy to find from the importers, but 4wd engines are almost impossible.

I like driving the Civic more, if everything's working correctly. Since that never happens, the Tercel inspires more confidence.

Now that I've said all that, I'm seriously considering hot-rodding an 88-91 Civic 2wd wagon. Honda built some serious engines and transmissions that will practically bolt in to those cars. 160hp and an lsd sound like a lot of fun to me.
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

MootsMan wrote: To the best of my knowledge, there was never a manual transmission option available on either the Lumina APV or the Pontiac or Oldsmobile versions here in the states.
I know.
But Berettas and sisters did.
The Quad engine existed with manual 5-sp on Cultass Calais, witch may share front parts with Lumina sedan /Lumina APV.
The Transport shares the front axle with the latest Fiero, so it was cheap and easy to upgrade it with sporty parts.
I don't know what car it shares the front brakes with (about 13"x1.3" rotors) but I'm sure GM had them on the shelf.

This minivan even existed here with a small 1900cc turbodiesel from Peugeot...
Very reliable but very lemon (92hp).
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

I've just bought on Ebay.fr an old magazine with a complete comparison Tercel 4WD versus Civic Shuttle...
I'll tell you within few days.
Typrus
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Post by Typrus »

Our 1.9L turbo diesel VW Passat is rated for 92h.p. but the torque makes up for it. Believe me when I say it feels much more sporty than 90 or so horses. Not to mention the 47 miles per gallon.
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

RIP 04-05- 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

1st Terc- 1987 Tercel SR5 4wd Wagon 6-speed, Sadly cubed

1985 Tercel Standard 4wd Wagon w/ 3-speed auto, Living a happy life in Boulder last I knew
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

retroloc wrote: I've just bought on Ebay.fr an old magazine with a complete comparison Tercel 4WD versus Civic Shuttle...
I'll tell you within few days.
Yeah!
I recieved it this morning.
<span style='color:red'>Tercel Wagon 4WD '86 versus Civic Shuttle 1.5 4WD '86 </span>(earlier version)
The tercel wins for conveniency and design.
The Civic wins for engine and fuel economy.
Tercel wins for cross-country.
50-50 for road use (dry and snow)
Civic finally got a "very small advantage" due to it's more modern techniques.

The Tercel tried wasn't run-in enought because it's slower (with short axle ratio) than mine with worn engine and tall ratios...

139.97Kph in 6th
146.18Kph in 5th

400m (1/4mi) stop start in 20"46
1000m stop start in 38"20
400m from 60Kph (37mph) in 18"81
1000m from 60Kph in 37"78

7.0L/100Km (33.6MPG) at 90Kph (56mph)
8.8L/100Km (26.7MPG) at 120Kph (75mph)
9.1L/100Km (25.8MPG) in city use.

do you also want Civic's datas ?
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