civic wagon vs. tercel wagon...

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
unclejemima
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Post by unclejemima »

How does the civic wagon 4x4 and the tercel wagon 4wd compare?

Has anyone owned either both?
-mark
3A-C Power
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Post by 3A-C Power »

I know the one shortcoming of the Civic wagon is that it's full time 4 wheel drive, and the fuel economy really suffers. That being said, there are alot of things that are better that I can say without even knowing the car very well. It has an EFI engine that is also a Honda and thus much smoother, more powerful and generally more pleasant than our workhorse 3A-C. Also has a newer style on the exterior and interior which most people would like better (we are not most people). The transmission may not suffer from the bad 2nd and 3rd shifting that the Tercel's does. I think it's also independent rear suspension. It's a Civic so aside from the 4WD-specific parts, you will always have an abundance of parts supply to keep one running. Someone mentioned in another post that the Civic might not be as capable off-road. Not like the Tercel is really meant for it, but around here you will always hear praise for the Tercel's off-road abilities. There are a couple videos of Tercels doing things that are just nuts. Also the Tercel is rated to tow 1500lb in North America, and a whopping 1400 kg (3000lb) in European countries. I don't know the Civic's rating.
Pegger
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Post by Pegger »

That begs the question "What's different with the Europeon's Tercel that they can tow 2X what ours will?"

Guy
Adelard of Bath
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Post by Adelard of Bath »

Governmental regulations? heh I am just guessing!

Independant rear = yummy! more ground clearance as well as less unsprung mass, more parts to go wrong though

Our car is 2250 lbs or something, do I really want to tow something 1500lbs? That implies I could tow my camper with that thing...heh "I dont think so" is what is running through my brain.
I suppose it could get it moving down the road, though...i would just have to be REALLY patient, and HOPE i didn't go over a windy bridge, or have to make any kinds of quick moves!

I have my eye on a 90 civic wagon 4wd; i could always go buy it just as a "project in the name of science" to keep the board informed...heh heh heh
tercel4wdrules
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Post by tercel4wdrules »

Another thing that the Honda Civic 4WDs have are the power accessories in the newer models, but are rare.
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Gasoline Fumes
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Post by Gasoline Fumes »

I have almost no experience driving 4WD Tercels on pavement, but I'm willing to bet the Civics handle a little better. The Civic's tow rating is zero. Honda says not to tow anything. That wouldn't stop me, but I'd keep the trailer really light. And yes, the 1988-91 4WD Civics had independent rear suspension. The 1985-87s had solid axles like the Tercels. The '85 and early '86 Civics had a button to engage 4WD, after that they became full-time AWD (called RealTime 4WD). There is a way to "shift" into 2WD on the RealTime models, there's a lever on the transmission that you can move. It'a meant for towing, but I've heard of people leaving it in the 2WD "towing" position all summer for better mileage.

I guess the Civic is a little sportier and the Tercel a little more rugged, which do you prefer?
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

The second generation of Civic Shuttle had a viscocoupling instead of central differential. This looses energy and wears each time you have a different tire pressure or tire wear.
It also has a super-first gear good to save the clutch when towing.
It's allowed to tow the same than the Tercel (1400Kg) but it's more difficult as the max torque is located high in the rev's (5200tr). So you need to hold the first speeds and that demands more fuel.
The gears are too tall as it even can't reach the max rpm on 5th and it sits when shifting the 6th.
The engine is more "modern" that also mean less possibilities for the do-it-yourselfer.
Several existed with the 1.6 V-tec 130hp... nothing in common with a Tercel.
Adelard of Bath
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Post by Adelard of Bath »

yummy! a more modern engine, that is...

rather than see it as "less for the DIY'er", I prefer to look at it like this:
Less time spent wondering why my *&$& <insert engine system here> isn't working
but that's just me!
Retroloc1
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Post by Retroloc1 »

Tercel is also designed for Africa and Africans.
This means it's convenient for unskilled mechanics and very cheap maintenance.
As they absolutely can't afford preventive services, the car is designed to be repairable aside the path, without special tools, without what you can't carry in the car.
Many parts are cleverly designed in this purpose.

The car can also suffer poor gasoline, poor fluids or late services a Lady-Civic-designed-for-snowy-towns won't.

An Efi is more driveable? Just some mud in a sensor and you're fail sticked.

With a Tercel, if you cut the fan's wires, it runs continuously instead of burning the engine as a Civic would.

My Tercel is fantastic.
GTSSportCoupe
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Post by GTSSportCoupe »

retroloc wrote: Tercel is also designed for Africa and Africans.
This means it's convenient for unskilled mechanics and very cheap maintenance.
As they absolutely can't afford preventive services, the car is designed to be repairable aside the path, without special tools, without what you can't carry in the car.
Many parts are cleverly designed in this purpose.

The car can also suffer poor gasoline, poor fluids or late services a Lady-Civic-designed-for-snowy-towns won't.

An Efi is more driveable? Just some mud in a sensor and you're fail sticked.

With a Tercel, if you cut the fan's wires, it runs continuously instead of burning the engine as a Civic would.

My Tercel is fantastic.
Excellent points and information! My vote is for the Tercel! One of the main advantages to this car for me is the knowledge that I can band-aid most potential problems in the wilderness enough to get me back to civilization on wheels rather than foot. 4-5 hours driving into the wilderness = hella lots of walking. :P
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
tercel4wdrules
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Post by tercel4wdrules »

retroloc wrote: With a Tercel, if you cut the fan's wires, it runs continuously instead of burning the engine as a Civic would.

My Tercel is fantastic.
Yes, those Civic engines do burn fast when they overheat. I know a friend who has a Civic whose engine failed because it overheated once, I think because of the water pump or radiator and locked up on him. MyTercel on the other hand overheated twice to the point where it could of burned up, but the head I don't think is warped and I don't think nothing 'melted' inside either. Good Tercel, not so good Civic. :D
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Typrus
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Post by Typrus »

Lol...
I love the Terc.
Ind. Rear Susp. equals less offroad wonder. A solid axle does that job much better.
I've O.H.'d maybe 5 times and nothing has suffered. Albeit I stopped as soon as I heard the coolant bubbling each time.
I like the simplicity.
A center diff would be nice on ours as long as it was an LSD.
Viscous couplings are sad and weak.
Its nice to have lots of aftermarket parts readily available.
I want an airbag
I like more modern and aerodynamic bodystyles
I'd like to be able to brag about my low-end in the production hierarchy car and have people say "Nice"

I like reliability


If you are a performance freak who doesn't like to tinker, get a Hawn-Der
If you are the kind of person who like to work intimately with their car to get it to roar, knowing the inside and outside of it and how to recognize a problem and how to fix it, forming a lasting relationship with your vehicle, get a Tercel.
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

RIP 04-05- 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed

1st Terc- 1987 Tercel SR5 4wd Wagon 6-speed, Sadly cubed

1985 Tercel Standard 4wd Wagon w/ 3-speed auto, Living a happy life in Boulder last I knew
Adelard of Bath
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Post by Adelard of Bath »

I bet somewhere, in an alternate Honda universe, the EXACT same discussion is happening, except mirror image...heh

and the independant vs solid rear discussion will rage forever, in every 4WD forum, with neither side changing their minds ever...much like "2door vs 4door" discussions, and "LSD vs locker" discussions, and "carb vs FI" discussions, lets see, what else....hmm.....

Actually, if I was going to buy something non-tercel, I'd rather have a nissan than a honda./.....just because I am a sucker for the underdog! hee hee
or a Mazda! that's even more underdog...like the 323 4wd

uh oh I am starting the "other cars like ours" thread again
unclejemima
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Post by unclejemima »

great posts, thanks guys!

I hope someone can confirm my take of this thread...

1.)Tercel's have a more workhorse but less civilized motor...(civics were carbed until 87 as well, so similar to tercel)

2.)Tercel's have the ability to engage and disengage 4wd as were the civic does not.

3.)Civic has IRS in newer models, perhaps not as good off road as tercel.

4.)Tercel has LSD???

5.)Tercel has 6spd tranny vs 5spd.

Major ones i caught...did i miss and other BIG ones?
I also have the impression that the civics in 85-87 were similar to the tercel with solid axle, carb, ext, but in 88 were upgraded as the tercel remained the same, is this correct?

Oh and while we are discussing 4wd cars, what about the subaru justy or the sentra wagon 4x4, competitors as well! Dont forget the 996 911 turbo 4wd!;-)
peace
-mark
GTSSportCoupe
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Post by GTSSportCoupe »

unclejemima wrote: 4.)Tercel has LSD???
We wish! No LSD I'm afraid. Although there are LSD swap possibilites for the rear.

Toyota rules over Subaru and Nissan BTW :P. Just look at the experience Toyota has had making excellent 4wds: All the landcruisers and the light Toyota 4wd pick-ups. (Course I am a Toyota nut....)
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
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