Fuel filter level?

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BaileySims
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Fuel filter level?

Post by BaileySims »

All of the fuel filters I have put on the car have always gotten full while the car was running. This one now only fills up about a 1/5th of the way. I haven't run into any issues as of yet, but Is that normal? I'll take a video of it when I get some time. The fuel coming through the pump into the filter just dribbles in.
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Jonymoto
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My tercel:: 1983, DLX 4wd wagon with 4.1 manual gearbox, tow bar). Manual steering. 313,000 kms. Tercel 4WD SR5, 1987, 500,000kms. Other car - 2003 Rav4, AWD, 2l manual, Peugeot 407 Diesel (93,000 miles) in Ireland for use when on holiday there.
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by Jonymoto »

Mine has always been full too. Is yours still a mechanical pump?
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by ARCHINSTL »

I never really paid attention to the level in my filter.
However - since you state the amount of fuel going from the pump to the filter is just a dribble - I take it you have an AM filter between the pump and the carb? Did it replace the OE on the side of the fender or is in addition to it?
I've been using a 4AC Corolla filter for some years, ever since Petros recommended it for a slight extra bit of capacity. The inlet and outlet pipes are reversed from the usual Tercel filter, so one must note that (there are arrows).
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10680&p=79216&hilit=filter#p79216
Petros' original thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6411&p=51127&hilit=filter#p51127
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BaileySims
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by BaileySims »

Jonymoto wrote:Mine has always been full too. Is yours still a mechanical pump?
Yes. I've had the same pump in for a little over a year and a half.
ARCHINSTL wrote:I never really paid attention to the level in my filter.
However - since you state the amount of fuel going from the pump to the filter is just a dribble - I take it you have an AM filter between the pump and the carb? Did it replace the OE on the side of the fender or is in addition to it?
I've been using a 4AC Corolla filter for some years, ever since Petros recommended it for slight extra bit of capacity. The inlet and outlet pipes are reversed from the usual Tercel filter, so one must note that (there are arrows).
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10680&p=79216&hilit=filter#p79216
Petros' original thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6411&p=51127&hilit=filter#p51127
Tom M.
Yes, it is an after market Wix filter replacement. I normally opt in for the cheaper ones from rock auto. While replacing them, yes, I always make sure the arrow connects to the correct line. The issue I can remember having is when I take a speed bump while off the throttle, the car will shut off if I don't feather it quickly after, which I think is there being too little fuel in the bowl? Before this last filter replacement, I did blow the lines out with air because the prior filter was full of dirt. Doing this might have caused debris in the tank to get into places it should be in. This current filter is still clear as well, but I should have dropped and cleaned the tank ages ago.
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helipilot77
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by helipilot77 »

I wonder if somehow there is air trapped in the filter that has no way to purge?
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Petros
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by Petros »

check your fuel lines for air leaks between the tank and the fuel filter. first check the lines right at the filter. with the mechanical fuel pump the whole fuel line up stream of the pump is under a vacuum. any pin hole leak will suck air into the line, if it is small it will not affect running, but will likely get worse. the air will collect in the fuel filter.

It is possible your old fuel line is old and brittle and when you replaced the filter you inadvertently cracked it enough to cause an air leak. simple replacement. I would suspect this section of line between the hard fuel line and the filter, I have seen them get cracked and suck air before. Funny thing is it never leaked fuel, it was like a one way valve, lets air in (when under vacuum) but would not let fuel leak out when the engine is not running.

It is also possible there are leaks elsewhere up stream of the filter, but it would be a coincidence if that were the case, and not related to the fuel filter.
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by BaileySims »

Good call peter. I did not notice it yesterday but there's a cracked line coming from the filter going to the carb. :\
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by amcewen »

I'm having the same issue. Well it started off with my (1984 Tercel 4wd wagon) skipping and losing power going up even the tiniest of uphill slopes. From how this car has obviously not been well-maintained at 296,xxx km, I changed out the air and fuel filter hoping it was just that. Before changing the fuel filter, I noticed it was only 1/2 full, barely touching the bottom of the filter. After I changed it, it's still only half full. I drove it afterwards and power seemed better but still low and skipping (probably just minimal improvement due to air and fuel filter change), so realized it must be something else. This morning cranked it, skipped a bit but sounded alright, especially when warmed up. I hit the accelerator, black smoke coming from exhaust. Turned it off. 15 mins later tried to restart it. It barely turns over then stalls soon after. Seems like hardly any fuel reaching the carb. Not sure if I should just replace the fuel pump next or look at something else? Sensors?
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Jonymoto
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My tercel:: 1983, DLX 4wd wagon with 4.1 manual gearbox, tow bar). Manual steering. 313,000 kms. Tercel 4WD SR5, 1987, 500,000kms. Other car - 2003 Rav4, AWD, 2l manual, Peugeot 407 Diesel (93,000 miles) in Ireland for use when on holiday there.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by Jonymoto »

Have you tried to start the car with the fuel line from the pump to the carbie disconnected? That will tell you if the pump isn't working.
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Petros
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by Petros »

to narrow down the problem do these steps:

1. squirt some fuel or starter fluid down the carb and see if it starts. it will run briefly and stall out if it is fuel problem. if it will not start at all the problem is likely spark/electrical.

2. if it is fuel delvier problem, you can check fiction of fuel pump by running the out put line into a can and have someone crank the engine for 30 sections (unplug the distributor so it will not start). if you get a strong stream of fuel, it is not the fuel pump, filter or fuel line. (you can also test this with a fuel pressure gauge, not too costly of a tool from autoparts store or Harbor Freight).

3. If you get no or little fuel spurting out, than do the same thing with a longer fuel line on the inlet side of the pump from a fuel fuel can. this will test that it is actually the pump working, or not. if it does not pump, replace it.

4. if you get a strong stream of fuel pumping from the fuel can, the problem is up stream of the pump in the line or filter. Likely a leaky fuel line, or perhaps a plugged filter, fuel line, or fuel inlet in the fuel take.

5. If you can not find a leak in the fuel line, you will have to take the cover off the fuel tank (under the hatch under the rear carpet) and clean off the inlet.

6. if there are lots of debris and particles in the fuel tank (inspect inside with an LED flash light), consider draining it, flushing it out, and than reinstall the drain plug. if that does not work remove the tank and take it to a shop that specializes in acid washing the inside of a fuel tank.

good luck
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
amcewen
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by amcewen »

Ok, I just bought a new fuel pump to install. it's a fuel pump made in the USA for a tercel 80-88. The factory one in the car was japanese. They look fairly similar, except the stock japanese one has a spring located on the arm that goes into the engine. Is this located internally in the newer mechanical fuel pump? I can send a pic too.
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Jonymoto
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My tercel:: 1983, DLX 4wd wagon with 4.1 manual gearbox, tow bar). Manual steering. 313,000 kms. Tercel 4WD SR5, 1987, 500,000kms. Other car - 2003 Rav4, AWD, 2l manual, Peugeot 407 Diesel (93,000 miles) in Ireland for use when on holiday there.
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by Jonymoto »

Please attach a photo.
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by amcewen »

The pumps are similar in dimension...just the original has a tapered lever at the end and a spring on it, while the new one doesn't. the mounting dimensions are the same. I went ahead and tried to install, but am having problems getting the new lever to slide into the camshaft where the mount will sit flush against the engine. Tried it again with the original stock pump too, and the same issue. I'm not sure how much pressure to put; don't want to damage something in the engine...:/
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by Petros »

you only need to post this question in one place, everyone sees it under the "new posts" tab, no need to repeat same question in different threads.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Re: Fuel filter level?

Post by BaileySims »

If it's not fitting in, maybe the lobe on the cam is at the highest point? Maybe you can rotate the engine a bit and try sticking it back in there.
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