Toying with an idea...

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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4wdEconoBox
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD
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Toying with an idea...

Post by 4wdEconoBox »

So someone locally has a 5s-fe and tranny for sale for $100. It came out of a wrecked 92 celica with unknown miles. Don't flame me, like I said, I'm just toying with the idea haha. What I'm wondering is how hard would it be to completely swap in the motor and tranny into one of our cars? I know my car would only be fwd drive at this point, but to be completely honest, there has literally never been one time where I've actually needed 4wd... And my car is way to sentimental to me to be doing any offroading in it. So what would the difficulty be of swapping in the complete unit? I've never seen anyone else do a transverse engine swap into one of our cars, so it'd also be pretty unique!! Thanks for any opinions and criticism, sometimes its needed haha.
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helipilot77
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 wagon
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by helipilot77 »

Get yourself a celiac all-trac transmission and keep it 4wd.
Honestly this is a very complicated and expensive proposition. You would need a full fabrication shop and a full compliment of technical skills in order to accomplish this. It could absolutely be done, but in the end you would be asking yourself why. The T4 is a longitudinal engine 4wd car. To convert it to a transverse engine Fwd car would require fabricating new motor mounts, reshaping much of the sheet metal in the engine bay, custom fabricating suspension and drivetrain components. All of this work would have to be performed to the most precise measurements in order to insure that the resulting car would be drivable to the point that the alignment could be adjusted to spec and drive down the freeway at 60 mph in a straight line. If you are interested in seeing what it would take here is the introduction video of a project started by two guys with a professional automotive fabrication shop who took on a project of the magnitude that you are suggesting and decided to film it along the way. 3 years later and thousands of £ and they still don't have the engine mounted.

https://youtu.be/txtMy7N1Fw0
. / TOYOTA
./_| |/|/ |]
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by Petros »

I agree, don't do it. You would end up trashing a t4wd, spend a lot of time and money, likely never finish it, and even if you did you would have a car no one would want. As functional and retro az the T4wd is, it is still an old car without All of the comfort And convenience most people expect even in a bad used car. The 4wd feature is the only valuable feature of an otherwise ordinary mid '80s econo-box.

If you are determined to do it go buy a front drive tercel wagon, you can find them cheap, because no one wants them. Or go find a Celica with a blown engine to put it in, much less trouble and you would have something you could sell.

Please don't wreck a good tercel4wd, what you are proposing is way too much h cost and effort for what you would get. Apply those creative ideas toward something worth while, something more fun and useful.

I would consider converting the engine to run on propane and find a Celica or a second gen MR2 to put it in.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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4wdEconoBox
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by 4wdEconoBox »

Well like I said I was just toying with the idea anyway. Just trying to be creative hahaha. Thanks for the advice yall, I don't think I ever really planned on going any further than just talking about it haha.
timothygodden
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My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by timothygodden »

why not use the tercel transaxle with the 5sfe?
If I am not mistaken the S engine was paired with E15X, C5X, and the S5X series transmissions (probably more as well) and the A engine has been paired with the E153 and the C5X's. So the tercel bellhousing (in theory) could bolt to the S engine, and I have seen S swapped ae86 corollas. So it could be made to sit in our odd FWD/4WD set up, creative flywheel clutch setup, custom exhaust, engine brackets might be tricky, and some piping to reroute the coolant. Would be way cheaper and easier to do it that way, and you avoid hacking up the frame of the car, might needs to hack at the oil pan and hood though.

EDIT: The 5sfe had a DLI waste spark setup put into it in later years that did not require any modifications to the head so there is a simple solution if there are dizzy clearance issues as well.
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Petros
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by Petros »

now that might be worth while. putting a modern EFI 16-valve ending in a Tercel4wd. you would have to do the whole EFI install, as well as adopt the distributor-less ignition, but both of those are worth doing. adapting the flywheel may not be that big of a problem, you just have to get the Tercel starter ring gear to fit on the flywheel. and any conversion/swap would require a custom exhaust.

what is the hp, rpm and torque range of the 5a engine? If it bolts up, or may take a few holes to be drilled or something, it is worth considering.

I remember looking at one in the wrecking yard and could not determine if it looked similar enough to work. It think I decided it did not, but that was just by eyeballing it. even so, making an adapter plate would be far far easier than cutting up a good T4wd to make a transvers engine/trans fit.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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helipilot77
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 wagon
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by helipilot77 »

I too am in support of that plan. Especially since the motor is free. If you could acquire a bellhousing off a T4 transmission it would make it easier to determine if it would fit. As long as there aren't any major problems getting the oilpan and exhaust to fit it should go in.
. / TOYOTA
./_| |/|/ |]
timothygodden
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My tercel:: 84 tercel 4wd sr5 lifted, modified head, delta cam, 2" exhaust
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by timothygodden »

the 5sfe out of a 92 is rated at 135bhp @ 5400 and 144ftlbs @4400 red line is 6000
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4wdEconoBox
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by 4wdEconoBox »

I wonder if it would bolt up to the transaxle?! I didn't even even about that bc I didn't even consider it working haha. The guy dropped the price to $75 for the whole swap, in thinking about picking it up just to have it. But if it would fit that would be great!! How would I go about doing some measurements to see if it's even close? Would any of y'all be willing to measure the bolt holes on the transaxle or engine so that I can check those against the 5sfe? That would be really really helpful! Thanks guys!
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helipilot77
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 wagon
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by helipilot77 »

I can measure them for you. No problem. I have a tranny sitting on a table I can measure off of.
. / TOYOTA
./_| |/|/ |]
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4wdEconoBox
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD
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Re: Toying with an idea...

Post by 4wdEconoBox »

That would be very much appreciated if you could do that!!
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