First issue

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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NWMO
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First issue

Post by NWMO » Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:54 pm

Hey all,

Cruisin' down the highway and she laid down on me. Doesn't seem like anything major, will start by trying to confirm fuel and spark. Just pumping while trying to start, I'm not seeing the typical "squirt" in the carb. Will start there first.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

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NWMO
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Re: First issue

Post by NWMO » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:40 pm

Alrighty,

Used a timing light to confirm no spark. Pulled the t/b cover back some to see the t/b in place. Had a buddy crank while I watched, no movement on t/b. Looked a little deeper and see the crank spinning right along, checked the timing belt and find no "teeth". So, time to renew seals, water pump, tensioner & t/b.

On the bright side, I coasted to a stop at my buddies drive. He pulled me up the hill into his garage. I told him I would trailer it home to repair. After offering to let me use his garage (which I graciously declined), he shows me his trailer and electric wench and tells me to help myself. I certainly enjoy the Midwest where I grew up and still know a lot of good folks.

"Little Blue" will be back to my daily driver while I get parts and repair. As mentioned before, I will also take this opportunity to drain/renew the radiator and back flush the heater core.
Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

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Gottolovem
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My tercel:: 1985 SR5 with snow plow,1987 auto 1984 parts car,1987 FX-16 GTS
Location: Reno

Re: First issue

Post by Gottolovem » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:41 pm

Bummer
I always carry an extra dissy for those break downs.
Could be a timing belt to :oldgeek:

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: First issue

Post by Petros » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:02 pm

my first thought was timing belt, looks like you confirmed it.

Also, consider replacing the thermostat and upper and lower radiator hoses if they are not recently replaced.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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NWMO
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Re: First issue

Post by NWMO » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:37 pm

Peter,

Will do, actually looking forward to turning a wrench on her. Having my '95 Prizm as back up is nice as I don't have to feel too rushed.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: First issue

Post by ARCHINSTL » Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:54 pm

Chris - go for the Gates t/b kit at Rock Auto - I just got one and will be installing it tomorrow.
The belt is Gates, made in USA and the tensioner is genyewine Koyo, made in Japan and smooth as silk - it also comes with the spring.
Cost was $27, and I also got cam and crank seals (my latter has been leaking). See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12150&p=93712#p93712

After removal, the OE (?), MIJ, tensioner was really difficult to rotate by hand - really - it was just freaking tight! :shock: :o
It may have rotated, but I wonder - prob the source of the continual "whine" from the front!

Have fun with the belt notched pulley if going for the crank seal - I made a slight variation of xirdneh's puller (used zip ties instead of the hose clamp) and it took freaking forever! See viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9008
I still cannot believe how an almost trace amount of rust could make it SO difficult! And of course I slathered it with Kroil™. After using 600 grit paper and cutting oil and following with 000 steel wool on the shaft and the i/s of the pulley, it slipped on quite easily. I WILL use antiseize on all when installing.
I just could not fathom how rust could have entered the crank with such a tight clearance, and esp. behind the timing covers, past the various belt pulleys and then under the t/b pulley!
Tom
T4WD augury?
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit.
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
Mark Twain

teranfirbt
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My tercel:: '86 SR5 4WD, 5AFE, lifted rear, 195/70/14 tires
Location: Waco, TX

Re: First issue

Post by teranfirbt » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:57 am

Get a factory thermostat! I had 2 different aftermarket brands that were garbage out of the box. One was weak enough to get sucked open by the water pump above 3000 rpm, the other was so weak it couldn't hold itself closed at idle. Factory stat holds closed no matter what until it's actually opened by heat.

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NWMO
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Re: First issue

Post by NWMO » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:13 pm

Good evening,

I got the last of my parts today and briefly started removals. Pulled radiator, water pump pulley and top half of cover. I cut the belt off of the PS pump. Bolts fighting me in three spots currently, starting to get dark, so I sprayed them down and came in.

Bottom (pivot) bolt for PS pump. I assume it is 14mm, but it's buggered up some. Penetrant and heat if necessary? it looks like one I would rather not break, so I will take my time. Hence, I cut the belt off.

I assume the lower radiator hose clamps are easily replaced, don't know if I will be able to save them or not. Sprayed them down with penetrant.

Lastly, the crank pulley bolt. I assume it is std (not reverse thread). Car in 5th with e-brake on, gave a few good tugs with the 3/8" wrench, but no love.

All tips appreciated. Tom, how has it gone for you?

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

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ARCHINSTL
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: First issue

Post by ARCHINSTL » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:30 pm

Chris -
I will be making a report later tonight, including pix of the tools I made (after xirdneh's style).
The TB pulley itself was "challenging..."

I used my electrical impact wrench for the first time, but had no luck with going over the bumper with an extension and flex-joint socket, just like xirdneh discovered. So I removed the license plate and stuck it through the big slot there - it was still a little crooked, but a lot straighter than above the bumper. WHRRR - the crank bolt popped off immediately! It is regular Righty/Tighty-Lefty/Loosey.

Which kit did you get? The Gates belt is thicker than the Toy OE belt; between the teeth, it is 2.75mm vs. 2.30mm.
Dod you get the crank and cam seals? see my recent post on seal removal!

Take the opportunity to vinegar the radiator - use white 5% - not apple. I did it two years ago and again this week - this week was just barely cloudy dust, and not much of that either. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10496&p=77813#p77813
This time I just filled it with vinegar for 2 hours, drained and filled with distilled water until ready to install a couple of days later.
Tom
T4WD augury?
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit.
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
Mark Twain

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NWMO
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Re: First issue

Post by NWMO » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:41 pm

Tom,

I got Gates hoses and the t/b kit. Ordered the thermo from the dealership. New water pump is AC Delco. I did get new cam and crank seals as well.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

Live each day to make a positive difference in someone else's life AND on your bad days, just keep it to yourself :)

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: First issue

Post by Petros » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:00 pm

You have to hold the engine from turning, the clutch will not do it. The easiest way to remove the front pulley bolt is to remove a spark plug and feed a soft cord into the combustion chamber (make sure it is at TDC, verify with valve position, or distributor rotor position), than rotate crank until it stops with piston against the soft cord in the combustion chamber (it takes a fairly large amount of cord to stop the piston, leave the end hanging out so you can remove it when done).

Put a 1/2" breaker bar and socket on the front pulley bolt and a "cheater" pipe and carefully turn the bolt counter clock wise (normal way). It might help to spray penetrating oil on the front bolt the night before. Make sure you have the correct size socket, I have found two different size hex bolts on Tercel engines.

a breaker bar is an important tool to own and does not cost much, Harbor Freight has a decent one for about $20, less if on sale. Or get a used one at a pawn shop.

If still no success, heat the head of the bolt with a propane torch and try again, some even say spray cold water on it after it is good and hot. the shock will break it free. It usually works on even the most stuck bolts.

I have never had success with impact wrench, long lever breaker bar is the only way.

Also, I have found a couple of good wraps with a soft hammer on the pulley after the bolt is off usually allows you to wiggle off the pulley without using a puller.

Good luck
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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marlinh
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My tercel:: 'Everett' Blue mint 4WD wagon and 'Rocky' 86 4WD Wagon
Location: Kootenays

Re: First issue

Post by marlinh » Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:41 pm

I always use an impact gun to remove the front pulley bolt. Never been a problem. Worst case scenario, I would have to remove the brackets that hold the radiator down and gently lift it away from the front of the crankshaft (hoses still attached) to get my impact gun in with a short socket.

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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: First issue

Post by ARCHINSTL » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:25 pm

Petros wrote:I have never had success with impact wrench, long lever breaker bar is the only way.
Obviously not the only way to go... :wink:
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit.
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.
Mark Twain

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rer233
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My tercel:: Multiple

Re: First issue

Post by rer233 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:12 pm

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'll do it anyway- you can always loosen the C/S bolt "hill-billy" style- just put a breaker bar on the bolt, wedge it against the ground with a length of pipe and bump the starter for a second to loosen the bolt. Little violent, but it works. Trust me, I've done it and it works!
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
83 SR5 Silver/Blue (Snowmobile/work beater)-totaled but drivable
85 SR5 Blue
88 SR5 White (the 'good' one)-not anymore-totaled
87 fwd silver wagon a/t
87 4wd dx Cream (a/t- not anymore- now m/t)

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Mark
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My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
Location: Victoria, B.C.

Re: First issue

Post by Mark » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:22 pm

I use the string in the cylinder method like Petros. It works every time, but I'm always a little worried about bent valves every time I do it. So far no issues.

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