LSD Solution

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
djcrawford1981
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My tercel:: 88 snorkel, lead filled rear diff, weber

LSD Solution

Post by djcrawford1981 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:10 pm

Hello everyone I'm new to this site but I have been snooping around it since late 2010. I wanted to let yall know I have successfully installed a Phantom Grip style LSD conversion into the front differential and the same can be done for the back. I used a unit that is for late model Acura Integra. The only bit of modification to original equipment is that the smaller spider gears in the carrier needed 4mm grinded off the face for the unit to fit into the center.

Ridlbox
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My tercel:: 1984 Toyota Tercel SR 5 custom aluminum rims 4 a motor custom rims Bluetooth stereo system
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by Ridlbox » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:29 pm

Do you have any photographs of the conversion
i will find a tercel in a music video
That's my new goal 8)

teranfirbt
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My tercel:: '86 SR5 4WD, 5AFE, lifted rear, 195/70/14 tires
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by teranfirbt » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:23 pm

Interesting, do you have any more details?

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by larry mcgrath » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:14 am

For sure some pix,and more info- The Rocket could realy use this, it's tough on rt front tires Larry

djcrawford1981
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My tercel:: 88 snorkel, lead filled rear diff, weber

Re: LSD Solution

Post by djcrawford1981 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:35 am

Sorry I was in a hurry and didn't take pics but I'll put a YouTube link of a guy installing it in a Acura that I used. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tGLXKLFiDpA
Our axle gears do not have the lip like this guys but the spider gears were to fat to clear the unit so I did grind them down.

djcrawford1981
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My tercel:: 88 snorkel, lead filled rear diff, weber

Re: LSD Solution

Post by djcrawford1981 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:31 pm

diff(1).JPG
These are the dimensions of our diff should you want to find one that doesn't require grinding. The B distance of the Acura unit was 47mm and for the love of God don't let some one sell you one of these for more then $140,I got lucky and found one on eBay from Poland for $100 shipped.
A. 0.96 in / 24.5 mm

B. 1.55 in / 39.5 mm

C. 0.57 in / 14.6 mm

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by Petros » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:11 pm

welcome to the forum!

There has been lots of discussion here on finding an LSD that fits in the Tercel. That is the most incredible thing I have ever seen for an LSD; convert a conventional diff into an LSD! that is really remarkable, I never knew such a thing existed, great price too! At that price it might be worth doing, particularly if you have to re-do the lash in the rear diff anyway.

How does it work? can you tell the difference?

Usually I understand the off road guys put the LSD in the rear diff and keep the front one open (conventional). would having front and rear LSD cause drivablity issues? binding, skipping, etc.?
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

djcrawford1981
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My tercel:: 88 snorkel, lead filled rear diff, weber

Re: LSD Solution

Post by djcrawford1981 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:33 pm

Honestly I am very happy with how it turned out, no problems at all doing 70mph down the highway, tight turns work fine as well. I would have done the rear this way but I already filled the rear carrier with lead before learning of these. Before anybody says WTH about the lead locker watch this video of these of these awesome Aussie guys which I got the idea from.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oqDw1rsFNhU

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Petros
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by Petros » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:37 pm

It appears the "lead locker" does the same thing as welding it up solid, though perhaps easier to accomplish than welding it. Okay if you can live with a solid axle, but when on hard surface streets, even when not in 4wd, there will be some stress on the rear axles and tire slippage, not a good idea on slippery ice.

Seems there are mixed opinions about the Phantom Grip around the web. Compaints of failures and wear out parts too fast, and putting metal shavings into the trans. Though I suspect because many are using it hard for racing or "drifting" with highly modified engines. Likely the stock diff parts are not up to that power, let alone a devices that adds stress to the parts. Also, most applications are for front wheel drive, which means this device will be putting shavings from wear into the trans lube, not helpful either. Shavings from wear in an LSD is normal, likely the diff oil should be changed more often. I wonder if using ATF mix would be better for the Phantom Grip, they also make diff oil for LSD diffs, likely a good idea for it. An off road magazine did comparison tests with a larger Phantom grip for a truck, compared to other much more costly LSD and gear type diffs, and found it was comparable in how well it worked.

It seems using it in the rear axle on the Tercel, that will only be used occasionally when in 4wd, is a good low cost option. Particularly since there are no other options for the small diff in the Tercel. I would think the extra loads would not be a problem since the Tercel rear axle is from the RWD corolla, which is a bigger and heavier car meant for full time RWD, not the occasional 4wd in the Tercel. It is pretty rare that any one has ever had any issues with the rear axle in the Tercel4wd, so I suspect this is a great way to go, realizing it will not handle super high hp, and will likely wear out faster than a conventional LSD because of the limited "clutch" surface, which would wear out faster with high loads and lots of heavy duty high hp use.

The Phantom Grip does not really have clutches like a conventional LSD, but the aluminum block presses against the modified axle gears the same way a conventional LSD does with a multiple disk clutch arrangement. So the surface area is much smaller (a single wear surface pressing against the axle gear face). But for use in the rear axle with the small amount of hp in our Tercels, even with an engine swap or a modified engine, it is a great way to go. It would keep you from getting stuck for sure, it would get me up my steep road to get home when it is all icey.

A corolla GTS rear axle can likely be retro fitted to the Tercel4wd, with several brands of costly conventional limited slip differential available. But likely you would have hours of work, and perhaps $1500 or more into it to get it to work. The Tercel would also likely gain 80 to 100 lbs more weight in the rear as well. If you were ever going to shoe horn in a highly modified 4age that put out 400 hp, the rear axle up grade might be warranted, though you would have to figure out a way to get a beefier 4wd trans to fit (adapt a Toyo 4x4 truck trans perhaps, if that were possible) so you do not bundle up that tiny Tercel trans with that much hp. That would also mean you have a lot more time and money you do not know what else to do with.

For now, it appears that Phantom Grip LSD conversion might just be another thing to add to my "wish list" on my ideal Tercel4wd, EFI twin cam, "GTS" Tercel.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

djcrawford1981
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My tercel:: 88 snorkel, lead filled rear diff, weber

Re: LSD Solution

Post by djcrawford1981 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:00 pm

I must say when not in 4wd I haven't noticed any chirping or odd wear in the rear tires, but it is definitely killer in mud!!!

Tercel__jon
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My tercel:: 1983 4wd Wagon

Re: LSD Solution

Post by Tercel__jon » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:07 am

Petros wrote: A corolla GTS rear axle can likely be retro fitted to the Tercel4wd, with several brands of costly conventional limited slip differential available. But likely you would have hours of work, and perhaps $1500 or more into it to get it to work. The Tercel would also likely gain 80 to 100 lbs more weight in the rear as well.
The GTS axle is a direct swap minus needing to be re-geared from 4.30:1 and having a 4x114.3 lug pattern which is easily solved with an adapter ($60ish). Thankfully all gts rear ends have LSD from the factory from what Ive read. Unfortunately the going rate in the ae86 crowd is about $700 for the axle. If you're lucky enough to snag a 4.10 set at a junkyard from another toyota with a T series diff, then you'll save a nice chunk of change there, but most aftermarket Ive seen want over $300 for USED sets.

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Petros
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by Petros » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:25 pm

I think the input flange on the GTS rear axle is also larger, which means having your rear driveshave mondified and reblanced to have the larger flange. the all-trac corolla rear axle has 4.10 gear set, which uses the larger rear axle, might be a source of ring and pinion.

I thought about that wheel bolt pattern, it might be possible to have the flange redrilled for hte 4x100 mm pattern in between the 4x114.3 lug pattern. That way you will not have the extra thickness of the adapter.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

teranfirbt
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My tercel:: '86 SR5 4WD, 5AFE, lifted rear, 195/70/14 tires
Location: Waco, TX

Re: LSD Solution

Post by teranfirbt » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:50 am

You'd have to weld the access holes for the axle flange closed which would make it a huuuuuge dick suck to get to the axle nuts. I wouldn't trust the strength of the hub with the 4 x 100 holes in between the original wheel studs and the access holes. A better solution would be to weld the 4 x 114 wheel stud holes and redrill them to 4 x 100.

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JDNightFox
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My tercel:: 1986 SR5 / 1987 SR5
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by JDNightFox » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:46 am

Sorry to revive this thread but what was the exact model of the LSD you used? And are the 4mm measurements exact or just a rough estimate? Since my transmission came with the wrong gear ratio I need to change the gears out in my front end and I'm planning on putting one of these in too. I was gonna do a full write up on it for everyone to use

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Petros
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Re: LSD Solution

Post by Petros » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:06 pm

he used the Phantom Grip style LSD conversion. do a web search on it, seems prices can vary quite a bit, says you can buy them for about $100 on ebay or Amazon.

here is a youtube of the installation: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tGLXKLFiDpA
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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