A Total Novice's Start with a 1984 4x4 SR5 -- Advice Thread

[Petros]

there are a number of souses of fuel smell. I have it on my daily driver, I have a leaky diaphragm on the carb that drips fuel on the heat shield on the side of the carb closest to the windshield. It is more a nuisance than a safety issue, the fuel evaporates as soon as a drop hits the hot heat shield, causing the smell. the other places are a leaky fuel line (should be easy fix, and should be corrected), running too rich (likely the AAP leaking, just pull the correct vac line and look for fuel inside it, which are the smaller approx 1/4" dia black hoses), or a leaky fuel pump. If it is coming from the fuel pump best to replace it ASAP, get the stock replacement pump. Forget the electric fuel pump, you have to make adapters, install wiring and likely install a pressure regulator too. Too costly and too much work, the factory fuel pump is perfectly good.

The original type fuel pump do not cost much and it is an easy direct replacement, and they are reliable and last a very long time. three hoses and two 12mm bolts removed it, use new gaskets with a coat of sealant on both sides (these tend to leak oil so seal it up good).

to look for leaks, clean off the engine as mentioned, also park over a large sheet of card board and inspect it. if you have active leakage you will get drips, the location on the cardboard will help you isolate it, as will having the engine cleaned off. there will likely be minor seepage from seals or o-rings in various places, that does not amount to much, you can ignore those until later. It is the active leaks that are important to locate and fix right away.

[irowiki]

Besides, I guess, maintaining and changing the fluids involved with it (trans and differential fluids?), is most of what you can do to keep it running healthily to not drive like a madman, keep RPMs kinda low overall?

Nah, RPM's don't mean much to a manual transmission. They're designed to rev. What DOES matter is not dropping the clutch, or hotdogging it, or lugging the engine too much, or while the car is under too much load (like say, if you have 5 guys in there and the cargo area is loaded, you might avoid 5th unless you're going down hill)

What about shifting technique--double clutch on up shifts (into neutral, let RPMs come down a touch, again into the higher gear) or just go straightaways in?

Depends on your syncros I guess. My 83 is a little sticky on third for example, so I sometimes double clutch, but I just clutch, neutral, clutch, shift, nothing fancy. I lack extended experience myself.

I'm also finding that I spend a TON of time in 2nd (and, sort of, 3rd) with this car, and I really need to get the RPMs up to 3.5kish+ in 2nd to get myself up to speed in regular city driving on even slightly inclined ground. From there, 3rd / 4th / 5th feel pretty interchangeable unless the incline shifts again. But, high RPMs scare me, and I don't want to burn this guy out--so if that's not the way you're supposed to roll, it'd be good to stop doing it now.

You are worrying too much. Just drive it.

[Petros]

Do not be afraid to run the rpms up, these tiny engines do not produce much power at low rpms. The car goes best when you keep the rpms above 2000 on the shifts, and on hard acceleration above 3000 rpms. It will go well past 5000 without harm, (I have reved mine to 7000 when on icy hills, but I would not recommend it). The power drops off after about 5600 rpms anyway, and occasional 6000 rpms will not harm a thing (it is really noisy and scary way up there, but as long as the engine is not worn out and about to fail, it will take it fine). I think the owners manual has recommended shift rpms for each gear. You can shift early when not accelerating hard, just avoid lugging the engine, particularly if you get ping or that crackling noise out of the engine (that is long term harmful), and you dely shifting to much higher rpms when accelerating hard to get up to where all the power is in the stock engine.

If you lack power at the lower rpms, you might have a vacuum leaks somewhere, that will not harm anything usually, but it makes it run rather gutless. there are threads on how to find and fix vac leaks.

[lucafusi]

You are worrying too much. Just drive it.

Do not be afraid to run the rpms up, these tiny engines do not produce much power at low rpms. The car goes best when you keep the rpms above 2000 on the shifts, and on hard acceleration above 3000 rpms. It will go well past 5000 without harm, (I have reved mine to 7000 when on icy hills, but I would not recommend it). The power drops off after about 5600 rpms anyway, and occasional 6000 rpms will not harm a thing (it is really noisy and scary way up there, but as long as the engine is not worn out and about to fail, it will take it fine).

Awesome, glad to know it. At the end of the day, the car's a tool to live life with and not something I want to step too lightly around. Good to hear that it's meant to be driven! I'm really glad I didn't end up picking up an automatic FWIW, the shifting game with this guy has been half the fun in my week or two of ownership.

Yeah, I'll crack the hood this weekend and assess the vacuum routing as best I'm able. Perhaps it can yield some early wins.

Just moving the car around last night--and sorry to have a brand new question with every response--I made some notes about the start / idle behavior.

• I can start clutchless or with the clutch in, and the idle kicks up to around 2K and stays there. Whether I let out the clutch or not. This is presuming neutral, btw.
• Still in neutral, if I haven't engaged the clutch I tap the accelerator to disengage the fast idle cam, it drops all the way down and the car then stalls out. If I'm engaging the clutch all the way, it won't stall, but instead the idle'll drop to 500-800 and slide up down. I mean, a REALLY, really low and tenuous idle.
• In a scenario where I've been driving for a bit, I can get into neutral and it'll idle pretty normally without any need for the clutch engagement at all and without stalls.

Is there something about carbureted engines that requires you to have warmed up the car for a bit before it'll idle stably? Or is something up with my vehicle? In either case, a basic mechanical explanation of what's going on when that happens would be kinda useful.

[Petros]

the cold start high rpm is normal with a car with a carburator, once it warms up a bit it should drop down to a normal steady idle in the 600-700 range. I set my idle about 850 because when an older carb gets some wear it will not idle stable below that. It does not harm a thing to have it idle a bit high, but much over that is annoying and noisy.

if your idle speed hunts up and down a few hundred rpm on its own, that is a sign of a vacuum leak, and likely the reason why it sometimes stalls out. If you can not find the source of the vac leak, or a mis-routed vac line(s), just set the idle a bit higher until we can get a look at it and try and locate the vac leak (the adjuster screw is on the metal crank on the side of the carb near where the throttle cable attaches to it) . It likely is not a bad leak, but annoying.

vac leaks cause a weak idle and a the rpm to hunt up and down, a slight flat spot at low rpm, and it can cause poor fuel economy, but does not really harm anything. It will run stronger, and be more responsive once it gets sorted out and corrected. Typically, finding the leak is more trouble than fixing it, there are so many places it can leak air into the system.

though sometimes you do get lucky and you find a crack vac line, or a hose that is not connected and dangling loose. Sometimes with the engine idling you listen carefully to all the vac lines and you might hear the "hisss" sound of the leak, follow the noise to find the sourse. A small vac leak will be harder to isolate, but using carb cleaner spray usually helps you find it. It could also be a gasket or leaky carb, but most likely is one of those many vac lines leaking.

ONce it is found and fixed it will start and run a lot better.

[lucafusi]

tools I always carry in the car (and are a good starter set of tools) are 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19 mm sockets (with handles) and combo wrenches, several socket extension and socket u-joint, long nose pliers, wire cutters, adjustable wrench, small volt-ome meter, one each Philips and flat screwdriver. a roll each of duct tape and electrical tape. BTW, there are no nuts or bolts on the Tercel that are not the size I listed (except a few of the larger ones I list below). So you will never use any of the smaller sockets that are not listed below 19 mm.

I'd love to hunt and peck around garage sales for the pieces I'll need over a lifetime of amateur mechanic work, but I really only have the weekends to work with--feel like by the time I get out to one and see what's there (or not there), that's a day gone, and one week longer that I haven't started wrenching the Tercel or doing the necessary early due diligence. So I'm thinking to kit up with a bunch of what you listed via Sears, Amazon, something like that in the Craftsman variety. I hear they're cheaper these days and can snap, but the lifetime warranty's still there; worst case, I find sockets or tools I like better down the line and I try to unload my older ones on Craigslist.

So that said, some questions:

• If I am to buy up the sockets in the sizes you listed above, do I want impact or standard sockets? What're the difference? And it seems like getting the deep ones would just make more sense, if I'm only gonna start with one set of heads
• Then I need a ratchet (?) to use them with. Are these are pretty much the same? Is there one with a swivel built-in, or is that a thing that comes as part of the socket head? Extensions?
• The combo wrench you describe--like a combo ratchet with a wrench on the backet? Something that looks like this? Seems a lot less useful than the modular approach of a regular ratchet, but I guess there's a job for everything..
• The socket u-joint--does that combo up with the ratchet (base, I'm guessing), extension (for extra length) and socket (the end piece that's the specific size for the bolt you'll need)? They're all able to be used together as part of the same tool, I mean? Why would I need three u-joints, like in a set like this?

I'm sorry that the above line of questioning is EXTREMELY basic, and I realize how rookie it's gotta look to have a dude lining up to fill his shopping basket a la carte with nice sockets when he's never done a repair in his life, but the sooner I get the raw pieces I need to start working in place, the faster I can start the actual learning by doing process--which I'm really eager to get to. It's a roadblocker for me right now; my household's literally got nothing more for tools than a couple of screwdrivers lying around.

Hope you all had a great weekend..

[Petros]

a combination wrench is open end at one end, and a box end at the other. I have not found the ratcheting box end wrench useful enough to own any, they are actually heavy and bulky, and will cost much more than a simple combo wrench.

You do not need impact sockets, they are much heavier, thicker and costlier. They for use with pneumatic power tools. Just get normal sockets, they are slimmer and will fit in tight places much easier. Light weight tools are a joy to use, easier on your hands at the end of the day, particularly when on your back all day reaching up into the car.

I like the simple ratchet handles with the mid length handle. Long handles are good for extra leverage on stubborn bolts, but will be in the way in tight places. I use a long breaker bar to break those free if necessary and than switch to the mid size ratchet handle. I own swivel head or swivel handle ratchets, they weight and cost more, but mostly they are more bulky and will be difficult to get into tight places. I never carry a swivel head as my only ratchet in a portable tool kit and only rarely use one when working at home. I do not find them that useful. The quality brands are much nicer to use, slimmer head, stronger but most important is that they have fine and smooth action. cheaper models have longer distance to swing between "clicks" of the ratchets. Everyone on this forum can tell you what a big PIA that is when working in tight places. If I could not after a good quality tool set, the only thing I would pay for is a quality, smooth action ratchet handle.

those u-joints on the link is what I am talking about, they go on the socket extensions. you do not need them that often on the Tercel since most things are easy to reach, but if you do need them, there is no other means to get a bolt out. They do not cost much, 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive are all useful if you intend to buy one of each of those handles and extension. If you can pick and choose you can economize and just buy a 1/2" breaker bar, several length 1/2" exertions, and only the larger size metric sockets. and use 1/2" to 3/8" adapters on the smaller sizes. I also really love my mid size 3/8" drive breaker bar (abotu 14" long), for spark plugs, getting break calipers off (sometimes I have to resort to the 1/2" drive one however). You will need the 1/2" drive breaker bar for the front pulley, flywheel bolts, CV axles nuts, and a few other places, but everything else will come free with the 3/8" drive without issue. I almost never use my 1/2" ratchet handle on the Tercel, I do not carry it when I travel, but I do bring along the 1/2" breaker bar.

Do not buy any more than you need for now, once you get some experiance you will find what you like and do not like and can add to it later. With just the 1/2" breaker bar and some 1/2" extensions, the larger sockets and the adapter you will be able to break free everything on the Tercel (unless it is unusually stuck, which sometimes happens on the big nuts in the drive train).

sometimes buying sets is cheaper, so check individual socket prices vs. buying sets. as far as cheap sets go, Harbor Freight offers a set of decent lifetime warranted sockets and wrenches (Chinese made, but actually decent). but getting craftsman or some of the other brands are much better quality. Even if guaranteed, when you break something it means you have to stop working in the middle of a job until you can get a replacement. I have doubles and triples of everything, mostly I accumulated those cheap (buying used) over the years, so I can put a decent set of tools in each car I own and have a full set in my garage. If something breaks I can go grab one out of the other set, and get the broken one replaced later.

[lucafusi]

Thanks again, guys.. so here's what I'm thinking for an initial tune-up set.

(What a rabbit hole this is becoming for a dude who knows nothing about tools. Sears.com sells Craftsman stuff, and so does Craftsman.com (via Sears), but both of their listed inventories are different. I'm honestly just gonna have to roll down to a store in person this weekend and buy what I need!)

Must-Haves

• Best 3/8 Ratchet I can afford. Do you go 3/8 just for the handling size, but buy the 1/2 sockets because they're a little more robust?
• Deep Sockets: 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19mm -- 1/2 Drive where possible, 3/8 Drive where not possible (guessing this may be the case for the 8mm?)
• 1/2 Breaker Bar (for tougher stuff)
• 1/2 Extensions of various length
• 1/2 to 3/8 Drive Adapter -- Seems like I don't want to cheap out on this one, as the 3/8 Ratchet will be getting a lot of use and I'll be using the adapter almost more than the 1/2 breaker bar..
• U-Joints (probably end up getting the 3-piece set here)
• Adjustable Wrench
• Needlenose Pliers

Nice to Have / Next

• Wire Cutters -- Don't think I'll be needing to do any of this as part of an initial tune-up
• Voltimeter
• 1/2 Drive Combo Wrenches -- Should the sockets be able to cover me for a little while? A full set of these guys would be an expensive add-on

Screwdrivers and tape, I think I have covered.

Spotting any blatant overbuys? Even jumping in like this won't be cheap, esp. if I spend somewhere like $70+ on a quality 3/8 Ratchet.

You think this'll let me get started on the basic tune-up, like messing with vac hoses, changing filters, adjusting timing etc.?

[Petros]

the 8mm deep socket should be 1/4" drive (use the 1/4" to 3/8" adapter if you do not plan to get a 1/4" drive ratchet handle), and the 10 and 12 mm deep socket should be 3/8" drive. to have these sockets in 1/2" drive means they have to be much larger dia and you will not be able to get them in to tight places. You should never fail 8mm socket or drive with the 1/4" drive, nor the 10 or 12 mm in 3/8" drive since bolt will shear off long before socket or dive fails. You might even find the 14mm deep socket in 3/8" drive more useful as well. the smaller lighter tool is always more desirable since tight clearances are always an issue on small cars.

I can not think of a place on the tercel where you need a 19 mm deep socket, can anyone else? 8 through 17mm yes. Usually you can get a 19 mm box end wrench over something that large and break it free using a hammer or cheater bar put on it.

I have no idea what "1/2" drive combo wrench" is, it is a combination wrench, or it is 1/2" drive socket wrench. what do you mean?

[lucafusi]

the 8mm deep socket should be 1/4" drive (use the 1/4" to 3/8" adapter if you do not plan to get a 1/4" drive ratchet handle), and the 10 and 12 mm deep socket should be 3/8" drive. to have these sockets in 1/2" drive means they have to be much larger dia and you will not be able to get them in to tight places. You should never fail 8mm socket or drive with the 1/4" drive, nor the 10 or 12 mm in 3/8" drive since bolt will shear off long before socket or dive fails. You might even find the 14mm deep socket in 3/8" drive more useful as well. the smaller lighter tool is always more desirable since tight clearances are always an issue on small cars.

I can not think of a place on the tercel where you need a 19 mm deep socket, can anyone else? 8 through 17mm yes. Usually you can get a 19 mm box end wrench over something that large and break it free using a hammer or cheater bar put on it.

Thanks, these are basics I just wouldn't know!

Seems like the adapters are key, but that the 3/8 Ratchet and 1/2 Breaker Bar are the way to go for 'base' tools.

I have no idea what "1/2" drive combo wrench" is, it is a combination wrench, or it is 1/2" drive socket wrench. what do you mean?

Something like this--thought that's what you were talking about when you mentioned:

... tools I always carry in the car (and are a good starter set of tools) are 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19 mm sockets (with handles) and combo wrenches

A set of those seems unnecessary for starters if I've got a ratchet and sockets to cover those size bolts...right?

[Petros]

Something like this--thought that's what you were talking about when you mentioned:

... tools I always carry in the car (and are a good starter set of tools) are 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19 mm sockets (with handles) and combo wrenches

A set of those seems unnecessary for starters if I've got a ratchet and sockets to cover those size bolts...right?

yes, those are "combination wrench", one end is open end wrench, the other box end wrench. I did not know what the 1/2" was for, they are just combination wrenches. That is great price for those wrenches in the link, however those are SAE sizes (3/8", 7/16", 1/2" etc), you need metric.

You will need both the sockets and the combo wrenches, there are many many places where you can not get a socket on the nut or bolt. The throttle cable adjustment bolt is a good example. Also where there is limited access you can often slip a thin open end wrench into the location where a socket will not fit. You will use the open end wrenches, you can not skip buying those if you expect to do maintenance.

I usually work on the car using just the 3/8" drive medium length handle ratchet, a 3/8" long handle breaker bar, and a big half inch drive breaker bar with an adapter. In addition to the sockets and combo wrenches, with those there, plus a hammer and pry bar, almost nothing that can not be repaired on a Tercel, It is rare I have needed a puller, usually I can improvise with the hammer and some junk I have in the garage if nessesry. For special tools you can always rent spring compressors, pullers or simmilar rarely used items. When I travel to do repairs I never carry those, they are so rarely needed.

[lucafusi]

6pt or 12pt on the sockets / wrench ends generally?

Also--would I need a jack to eventually be able to get to the trans / diff fluids?

[xirdneh]

a 1/2" breaker bar connected to a deep 13/16" socket is great for getting lug nuts off and tightening them
short 24mm (or 15/16") 6 pt socket (1/2" drive) for removing fill and drain plugs on tranny and rear diff
15/16" (or 24mm) combo wrench for that hard to get at tranny passenger side fill plug

[Petros]

It is greatly useful to grind off the lead in bevel (about an eighth of an inch) on the 24 mm socket so you get a better grip on the thin 24 mm fill and drain plugs on the trans and transfer case. these plugs often get beat up from people using the wrong tool or an adjustable wrench on them, that would be a real problem if you can not get the filler plug off, and a PIA to do if the flats get all buggered up. I have had to heat the housing and take a big chisel to it to break it free when previous DIYers messed up the drain plugs. So use the correct tool (the ground off 24 mm socket) and you can put a lot of force on it without it slipping off, to get it off with out damaging the flats on the plug.

I prefer the 12 point sockets in almost all instances. but on the larger sizes the six point sockets are stronger and allows you to put a really big cheater bar on the handle to break those stubborn axle nut loose.

A hydraulic floor jack is really handy, but not a necessary purchase. A good scissor jack works fine, including the one that comes with the car. I have used it to lower the trans, and used two to raise it back into place. You can hold off on getting a hydraulic floor jack until later, take your time and look for a good deal, used or on sale.

You will need at least a pair of jack stands to put under the car once it is jacked up. NEVER go under a car when it is on ANY jack, you will get killed by being crushed. Jack it up, put the jack stands under it in strategic locations (frame or suspension locations that will support the weight of the car in a solid stable way), lower the car down on the jack stands. Than grab the bumper and push and pull on it with all your strength. If it does not move or shift, you are good to crawl under it.

[ARCHINSTL]

What Petros said on the jackstands! NEVER scrunch under any car without using jackstands!
If your surface is gravel, cut two (or more) pieces of at least 1/2" plywood to place under the jackstands!!!
As to grinding the chamfer on sockets for the drain/fill plugs - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2160&hilit=plugs
Tom M.